Heathen1 Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 I just read a post from Kitty, she was complaining about her units not reacting. That her Sherman just sat as the enemy moved into and out of her LOS with the, as she put it the red line thingy on it. 12 second total, dam near ¼ turn, without do a dam thing. Well this is happening to me big time. Something is very wrong with the 1.1 patch. The good news is that I am not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Heathen, It happens. I wouldn't push this too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasd Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 I had the same problem today, my 75mm AT Bunker was being fired at for a whole turn by a 6lbr. The 75mm didnt bother to even target it, and before I could order it to target it, the 6lbr had already damaged the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Perhaps AT guns won't target anything other than Tanks unless commanded to do so? They would have AP rounds loaded and so need to be ordered to load HE for other targets? Infantry don't shoot at Tanks unless they have AT weapons so maybe this "problem" is along those lines also. How about asking this question in the "questions answered by cesspoolers" thread, there is a wealth of knowledge/experience there and many people willing to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Heathen, I also posted to your other thread. If you think something is wrong send the files to Matt. He will check it out. But he will need to see specific examples because remember these guys did a ton of testing before releasing this so chances are pretty good that if there was a glaring flaw they would have seen it. If there is a flaw the only way for them to really see it is by sending them a file. Also remember, a GREAT deal of thought has gone into reaction time of units. Things like experience level of units, command, exposure to fire and threats, human error ect.. The list is very long. 12 seconds is not too much time for a unit to sight, decide and act upon a situation. I may seem like a long time in the game (esp. with rewind/fast forward/pause ect.) but real world under in battle siuations under stress it doesn't seem like too long. CM is more like a simulator than a justa game. ------------------ What do we do with a terrible liar? Well, Great liars we send into the clergy. Good liars we groom for politics. Moderate liars we supply with sherrif's badges and guns, and the bad liars, well, we make them heroin whores. So what the hell do we do with the Terrible Liars? Well, it seems we turn them into physicists called "chrisl." Peng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Also dont forget that just because a unit is "seen" that the unit you want to target and shoot it has acquired it. For example *you* may see that panzerschreck sneaking up behind your tank, but the buttoned up tank wouldn't see it because it is in it's blind spot. It is *kind* of a relative spotting deal. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Kitty said her problem was with 1.05, NOT 1.1. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Heathen1, As said above, jsu tsaying :I *think* something is broke" aint gonna cut it. I need specific examples and more importantly I need you to send me some game files where this behavior is exhibited. Just because a unit hesitates to shoot is not a bug. There are thousands of elements which can make a unit hesitate to shoot. They are not Terminators, they can make mistakes, fail to react, or even take their sweet time to aim before firing. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasd Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Stuka, This particualr AT Gun had 50 rounds of HE so I doubt it would need speciffic orders to pop off one measily round. But Madmatt is right, maybe the gunner was out the back having a pee, who can tell, there can be thousands of possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chasd: But Madmatt is right, maybe the gunner was out the back having a pee, who can tell, there can be thousands of possibilities.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's what makes this game so lifelike and interesting. I've almost never been in a human situation where everybody performed perfectly all the time. Somebody always screws up sooner or later. And it can be very contagious; one person screws up and pretty soon everybody else has too. And that's without even having anybody shooting at us. I hesitate to imagine what it's like in the middle of a battle. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naja Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Sorry, I have to agree with Heathen1. I have never posted a bug or complaint ("why start now you ubergrumbler") BUT I have noticed a BIG difference in 1.1 - at first I chalked up guys sitting in blown up Halftracs as "oh well" or my 20mm Halftracs speeding off to the nearest enemy AT-team and backing up as "bad luck", or deciding to park under 2 story buildings full of enemy infantry shooting at him as "strange grenade envy." BUT (there it is again) I played a PBEM where a Hertzer refused to fire a shot (no a Hertzer is not an ubertank, 4 crew members.) He lost his commander. I understand the pain and suffering so I retire him for a turn or 2 (nice all powerful commander that I am). The long and the short of the story is the Hertzer never fired a shot, not when I tried to run over a MG, not when I targeted smoke, not when he was being targeted by a Piat. I said "oh well, guess I have to change my tactics." Lost 3 games in a row and I haven't lost too many (insert smilie here)......P.S. Matt I seem to remember reading something to the effect "This is the final version..post all bugs to the BBS.." not me..I have no problems and just adapt my tactics but Heathen1 - he is not seeing things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Naja: BUT (there it is again) I played a PBEM where a Hertzer refused to fire a shot (no a Hertzer is not an ubertank, 4 crew members.) He lost his commander. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The Hetzer has a slow rate of fire to start with (the loader is on the wrong side of the breech), and if you knock out a crew member it's going to get slower. You don't necessarily know which crew member was taken out, but it could seriously ruin your day. ------------------ Slayer of the Original Cesspool Thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 As Matt suggested guys, we cant see there is a problem without evidence. If you see something such as the above that you feel is odd we really need your help by sending us in a movie of the problem so we may review it. Ill also add here guys that Kitty's problems was in 1.05, not 1.1, so I dont think they would be related in any way. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naja Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 chrisl, one problem with you observation he did not shot, take evasive action or listen to fire commands for the rest of the game , mg or main gun option were never offered and no display of damage other than 1 crew down (I would hope the loader would fire the mg) I am very keen in differences in game behavior because it is what I do for a living (SQA tester, yes all the crappy games that don't work I have told them they wont work!) I never read Kittys post and am only replying to a Junior Member's observation and subsequent dismissal of his input, .... KwazyDog, you have alwase been a gentleman in the BBS and I respect your request and will see if I can get you the appropriate files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Thanks Naja In case its of interest, the reason we ask for a file so we can review the playback is so we can define what circumstances caused the problem. Hehe, I'm sure some think it is simply a way for us to stall, but it isn't Games are very complicated things. People whom haven't coded before might not realise it but games are made up of tens and hundreds of thousands of lines of code. This code tells the computer what to do. Usually a *bug* is either one of the lines of code being wrong, or logic behind the way the code reacts to a given circumstance being wrong. When people give us a possible problem, a lot of the time it is easy for us to replicate. For instance, if one of our beta testers finds they get a crash every time a flamethrower fires, then chances are there is a problem with the code that tells flamethrower how to fire, which may be say, 100 lines. When people find a problem that is very general though, like 'something is very wrong with tanks shooting at each other', we cant see what the problem is. Even with a very good description of the problem it could be one line of code in ten thousand that is the cause, comprising of hundreds of variables that may all have to equal certain values for the problem to be replicate. Thus, without a movie, we cant see the problem and have no chance of find it. On top of that, probably 8 out of 10 report problems aren't For instance I've reviewed Kitties playback, and I can offer 2 explanations for what I saw, though I still passed it onto Charles for review. Anyway, though that may be of interest to some whom don't know the first thing about computer programs or why bugs are sometimes so hard to find Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naja Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 I am ashamed to have taken so much of your time Dan. You give poignant insight into the intricacies of bringing such an astounding product to the market place. Thus the non-criticism of the art that Charles has created (yes, it is more art- like.) I just noticed a change in the brush stroke (again smilie here.) As always, you are a true gentleman. Kamalu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Its no problem at all Naja, Im glad to have taken the time to explain the process a little further Its just that it occured to be that there may be people out there whom dont know how code works and dont really know the beta testing and bug squashing process. Even with the programs I used to work on before starting with Battlefront, which were quite literally 1/50th the complexity of CM (they were database programs..boring stuff ) tracking down bugs could be a very complicated process which could sometimes take hours. Glad it was of interest Naja I agree too, Charles and Steve have created a piece of artwork in creating CM. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chrisl: The Hetzer has a slow rate of fire to start with (the loader is on the wrong side of the breech), and if you knock out a crew member it's going to get slower. You don't necessarily know which crew member was taken out, but it could seriously ruin your day. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is not a complaint because it is only one game, but last night in a TCPIP, I had 2 unbuttoned intact Hetzers who consistently refused to fire their machineguns at nearby enemy infantry. After I used up all the HE, I had to order them to fire AP at the infantry and then smoke. Now maybe they were firing invisible bullets, but from now on I'll keep a closer watch on my Hetzers to see what they do.If no one else has seen this, it is probably a burp in the program or bad luck or something and not worth pursuing. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrano01 Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Old story to underline KwazyDog's point about the need for the files, apologies to all in the IT business who have heard it before. 3 people in a car going down a mountain road, a scientist, an engineer and a programmer. The brakes fail and the car almost runs off the road and over the edge of a precipice but, by a mixture of luck and skill, the driver gets it back under control and brings it to a stop. All 3 get occupants take a while to recover their nerves but then fall to discussing what they should do next. The scientist suggests examining the brake mechanism so they can determine the phenomenon that caused the failure. The engineer suggests fixing the brakes and adding a back up system for future use. The programmer disagrees saying, 'Hang on chaps, what we need to do first is take the car back to the top of the mountain and reproduce the fault!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cyrano01: The programmer disagrees saying, 'Hang on chaps, what we need to do first is take the car back to the top of the mountain and reproduce the fault!'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My "reset" version had a mechanical engineer, an electrical enginer and a computer engineer, when the car suddenly stopped. The ME said "there must be a problem with the engine", the EE said no, it must be the electrical system". The Computer engineer said, no, let's all get out of the car then get back in, that should solve the problem. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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