Flipper Posted January 19, 2001 Author Share Posted January 19, 2001 sorry jeff but when people target buildings with thanks parked next to it knowing dam well that a gun hit is more than likely the norm I call that crap! soooo...you PISS OFF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: Another interesting angle – I can't remember whether I heard this here or read it in Cornelius Ryan's book (maybe both) – I think the Germans would fire AP to make a hole in the wall, and then put HE through afterwards.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> When in the Cav (1-1 Cav, 1st AD) we were doing train-ups for Bosnia we had several different load-outs for our 25mm guns on the M3s. One was a HE load with training rounds mixed in. The thought was to have the solid training rounds bust through walls and such so the HE could be effective. [This message has been edited by CavScout (edited 01-19-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Flipper wrote: > sorry jeff but when people target buildings with thanks parked next to it knowing dam well that a gun hit is more than likely the norm I call that crap! soooo...you PISS OFF! I can't see what the problem is here. You can just as easily target the tank itself with artillery and take out the gun or immobilise it. Maybe that's what your opponent was doing. And will those who cannot engage in this discussion without flinging insults please refrain from posting. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 CavScout wrote: > One was a HE load with training rounds mixed in. The thought was to have the solid training rounds bust through walls and such so the HE could be effective. Imaginative... =) Here we go, from Cornelius Ryan's A Bridge Too Far. Captain Mackay was in command of the British paras holding the buildings on the opposite side of the Arnhem bridge ramp from Colonel Frost. ----- Almost immediately Mackay heard a cry from the floor below, 'Tiger tanks are heading for the bridge.' (It was exactly 7 p.m. German time; 6 p.m. British time.) Two of the huge 60-ton tanks were heading in from the north. On his side of the bridge Frost saw them, too. 'They looked incredibly sinister in the half light,' he noted. 'Like some prehistoric monsters, as their great guns swung from side to side breathing flame. Their shells burst through the walls. The dust and slowly-settling debris following their explosions filled the passages and rooms.' One complete side of Mackay's building was hit. 'Some of the shells must have been armour-piercing,' Lieutenant Peter Stainforth says, 'because they went through the school from end to end, knocking a four-foot hole in every room.' Ceilings came down, walls cracked and the 'whole structure rocked.' Staring at the two tanks on the ramp Mackay thought the end had come. 'A couple more rounds like that and we'll be finished,' he said. Still, with the stubborn and fearless resistance that the fighters at the bridge had shown since their arrival, Mackay though that he might 'be able to take a party out and blow them up. But just then the two tanks reversed and pulled back. We were still alive.' ----- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Banshee: I believe the german doctorine was that you defend a village in the middle not at it's edges (so they wouldnt be exposed to direct fire), the american doctorine was to not defend inside the villages at all but in the surrounding terrain. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think this is fascinating. Seems like 2 different approaches entirely. I can see how if you hide in the buildings then your location can be determined more quicly once you start shooting and you can be trapped in the buildings too. But they are great cover... Anyone care to contrast them based on their experience in the game? Is one better than the other?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: Flipper wrote: > And will those who cannot engage in this discussion without flinging insults please refrain from posting. David<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Mr. Poopy Pants ------------------ Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Hi mom! Hiram, is that turn coming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Hiram Sedai wrote: > Mr. Poopy Pants I bloody well said NO INSULTS, you pathetic excuse for a stuffed replica of a mindless halfwit!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom: Hi mom! Hiram, is that turn coming?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My email is in my profile, tough guy. You want the turn? Come and get it. ------------------ Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 OMG, Pengers have invaded the outer forum. "Intruder alert deck 4, intruder alert deck 4!" ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikey D Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Hey, you're criticising the VERY coolest aspect of CM. It's the hightlight of the game when a church full of enemy goes theromnuclear! Accuracy-schmacuracy. My only suggestion for CM2. Make it so we can get someone into a church belltower AND make it so a tank can target a belltower specifically. They certainly did in real life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 20, 2001 Share Posted January 20, 2001 OK, hopefully we have established some "facts" here: 1. Buildings were NOT good locations to be in if the enemy has the ability to bring lots of HE (direct or indirect) on specific targets. This is supported by period doctrine from both sides that clearly recognized that buildings were of questionable value as defensive locations in such situations. 2. No unit is immune from falling buildings. A Tiger can just as easily be "knocked out" by a wall falling down as some infantry man. Check out pictures from St. Lo for example, as this is one of the best documented cases of heavy vehicles getting knocked out in urban areas from non-direct fire. 3. When a building falls down, it brings with it the very good chance of damaging (killing) units inside AND imediately outside. Buildings are not kind enough to fall down only within their footprint. Check out some pictures of destroyed houses and note that a good percentage of their debris is outside, making the footprint of destruction 20% or so larger than the structure itself. Larger buildings could be even worse if the wall fell over instead of falling down. 4. We do not simulate individual walls coming down. This is why all building damange goes 360 degrees around it, which would only happen in some cases. This is something we are planning on fixing for CM2. 5. That is NOT a shockwave that you see when a buiding falls down. It is dust and light debris expanding outward. It won't cause any damage to units, but it does mess up LOS for a little bit. Check out some video of building demolition (which tries to reduce this effect) and you will see what I mean. More food for thought Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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