Jasper Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I was reading about the 4.2 inch chemical mortars and came across this sentence: "It is readily admitted that white phosphorus will not produce a high percentage of casualties, but it has an important antimorale effect and it does spray over a terrifically larger area and thus covers more of the target then would be possible with high explosives." From "Chemical Warfare in the European Theater of Operations" by Col. Adrian St. John, Chemical Warfare Service, Sep 4, 1944. Seems to me that it must be pretty nasty, but I was wondering if anyone had an occasion to see it first hand. I'll post the article soon, but despite the corporate stance of BTS, it seems that white phosphorus was used a lot. Read one instance in a 'Combat Lesson' where they fired it *behind* German troops attacking at night so as to see the outlines of the German soldiers against the illumination of the WP rounds. ------------------ Check out http://www.geocities.com/funfacts2001/ for military documents written during WWII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ksak Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 "Willie Peter" looks like white smoke. More interestingly I saw a mortar APC carrying WP that was hit with a B-40 rocket melt to about 6 inches high. Nobody carried it after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Ouch! I've heard that WP is flammable I was thinking the smoke probably doesn't smell too good, nor do much good for the eyes. Otherwise I'd think being shelled by smoke wouldn't effect morale much. Perhaps it causes a shower of little burning nasty things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Read AARs of it being used to set bunkers on fire in Italy. A Btn would come across a field with haystacks in it looking suspcious (I often find suspicious haystacks in my travels), so they'd throw a couple of WP rounds and set it all on fire, and watch germans abandon a hidden bunker. It sticks to the skin and continues to burn and stuff.. nasty PeterNZ ------------------ "Patriotism is the virtue of the viscious" - Oscar Wilde "Don't F*CK with Johnny Cash!" - Chupacabra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Jasper: I was reading about the 4.2 inch chemical mortars and came across this sentence: "It is readily admitted that white phosphorus will not produce a high percentage of casualties, but it has an important antimorale effect and it does spray over a terrifically larger area and thus covers more of the target then would be possible with high explosives." From "Chemical Warfare in the European Theater of Operations" by Col. Adrian St. John, Chemical Warfare Service, Sep 4, 1944. Seems to me that it must be pretty nasty, but I was wondering if anyone had an occasion to see it first hand. I'll post the article soon, but despite the corporate stance of BTS, it seems that white phosphorus was used a lot. Read one instance in a 'Combat Lesson' where they fired it *behind* German troops attacking at night so as to see the outlines of the German soldiers against the illumination of the WP rounds. WP was used, and loved by its user in WW2. The question of course is how muchj. It was used WAY more in Korea, where as St. John says it caused less in the way of casualties that of morale problems. That guy screaming who the medics cannot help while a burning chunk of what is essentially a light metal eats hisparts of his body is hard to take. Rumors, mostly unfounded, that Koreans and Chinese shot their own wonded may have stemmed from it actually happening in cases of a WP burn injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Another nice trick is to include WP with your smoke mission. The nasty of it is if you inhale some, it will burn inside of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 WP was/is the standard smoke round, since it's the fast way to produce a large cloud of smoke. ... and there's no smoke without a fire. Yes, WP starts to burn when it comes in contact with air, so it's usually stored submerged in some liquid. The WP used in ammo doesn't burn for very long though, since it's distributed in so tiny particles. I guess the background illumination effect came mostly by being a white background for the dark uniforms and vehicles. IMO the smoke rounds in CM do a nice job of representing WP. Cheers Olle ------------------ Strategy is the art of avoiding a fair fight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Are we talking about aobut Texas Chilli here? I read that the americans used the stuff at Köln... burned the entire Jagdpanzer Div. that was positioned there. ----------- www.derkessel.com Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I was a mortar FO in the Marines. We habitually used WP for spotting rounds. I recall one training accident in which someone was next to a round when it went off... that stuff burns at an extremely high temperature. I hope they guy didn't feel a thing. I believe he died instantly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lickitysplit Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 W.P. funny you should mention the stuff. We just had a sheriff come and talk to us at work about Meth. and he was telling us of W.P.,and how when it gets on your skin it will burn it's way thru, and that it can't be put out with water and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer_n_Pretzels Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I have fired from an M2A2 105mm Gun/Howitzer and have seen it at the sharp end. Not very nice stuff and I can see why the enemy would not like it. The smell is pretty bad as well (worse than Cordite). However it looks pretty when it hits the ground... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraGoon Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 When firing WP from Chieftain at the ranges a whole new group of safety drills had to be applied. A 50 Gal drum of water was placed at the back of the firing point and all crews were trained and briefed on "action in event of". After seeing pictures of injuries caused by mishandling of WP rounds you can bet they listened. Ranging for these shoots was usually carried out with a couple of HESH sighters, a fast loader would be banging the projectiles off of the breech as he loaded them, there was a marked change in speed when WP was being loaded. The sound of a WP proj banging against the breech block drew everyone's attention. Oh yes... ------------------ CM Outpost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Fredriksson Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I've only seen WP go up in the form of handgrenades. As mentioned earlier, the best thing about them is the quick smoke-screen they provide (and it does look pretty ). We were taught that the only way to behave if you got it on you, was to keep pooring water on it. The water will suppress the fire, but as soon as it gets in contact with air, it will start to burn again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roborat Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 We (canadian artillery) are taught that using WP against infantry is not allowed, seems it is cruel and inhumane, which is a little confusing, as cutting people to ribbons with VT is perfectly acceptable. However using it on armour is ok. So the standard response is, "infantry? oops, sorry, we were trying to get the tank". ------------------ "With cat-like tread, Upon our prey we steal; In silence dread, Our cautious way we feel." -G&S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 SlapDragon said "The question of course is how much." From what I'm reading - lots. Later in the same article mentioned above is states that HC smoke was only shot after the last round of WP was used. And that the practice was widespread among all artilley units. Early in the article it said that during the previous 20 days a 1/3 of the ammunition shot out of 4.2 inch mortars was WP. In 'Combat Lessons' #4 refering to the 4.2 mortar (again!) it reads "The Germans have shown a marked dislike for WP, and on many occasions a few rounds thrown in their hedgerow positions have caused their precipitate withdrawal." After reading the above posts I now understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 My Mom lived through WWII as a civilian in Germany. She told me that the British put WP in their incendiary bombs, but that they were big sticks of WP (no bursting charge). Anyway, during an air raid most of the residents would go to the air raid shelter, but someone was assigned to go to the roof of their apartment building and if a stick of WP fell on the roof they would either kick/throw it off or dump it in a pale of water. From what I remember, it sounded like these fire bombs could actually be grabbed somewhere on a non-burning surface, but I can't remember exactly what she told me. (Apparently, these roof volunteers were pretty brave since HE bombs were mixed with the fire bombs.) She said they were dangerous because they would stop burning if buried or underwater, but would immediately light up again if exposed to air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueFalcon Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Willy P is definatley no fun. The chaplin used to come around every now and then and show a video of a born again soldier who had the bad luck of meeting Willey on a personal level. Seems that the guy caught a round in the gut, which basically began burning him alive from the inside out. Medics came and put him on stretchers, but he kept burning through. Finally they got him on a medivac, but he burnt through that too. Seems that was enough so they declared him dead. Then just as a medic was about to kick his dog tags into his teeth he jumps up and says he's alive. I would not have believed it myself had I not seen the video, and heard the guy tell the story. Of course he was in a wheel chair, but if I went through that I would probably be born again myself. ------------------ Stay Alert!! Stay Alive!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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