Get out of there men!!

[Hawkeye]

Has anyone ever wished for an "abandon" command like I have? I mean, I often find myself (while defending) wishing that I could just tell my crews to abandon that AT gun because I know the arty strike will be arriving within minutes. Furthermore, I'd like to tell my men sometimes to just ditch that heavy MG or mortar because they're going to die if they stay within enemy LOS trying to lug that thing outta there. FURTHERMORE, I'd like my crews to be able to reman this equipment! I played a game last night in which all 6 men in my .50 cal crew were wasted by HE fire because they were trying to carry the gun across open terrain. If there were only some way I could've told them "Get the hell outta here! Forget the gun!"--but alas, dutiful men that they were, they lugged that thing down to the very last man who, in turn, was imobilized and then finally VAPORIZED. It's just not necessary! Those men don't have to die! I don't like casualties! Even crew casualties! I don't like being responsible for unnecessary deaths!

Hawkeye

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Hawkeye:

Has anyone ever wished for an "abandon" command like I have? I mean, I often find myself (while defending) wishing that I could just tell my crews to abandon that AT gun because I know the arty strike will be arriving within minutes. Furthermore, I'd like to tell my men sometimes to just ditch that heavy MG or mortar because they're going to die if they stay within enemy LOS trying to lug that thing outta there. FURTHERMORE, I'd like my crews to be able to reman this equipment! I played a game last night in which all 6 men in my .50 cal crew were wasted by HE fire because they were trying to carry the gun across open terrain. If there were only some way I could've told them "Get the hell outta here! Forget the gun!"--but alas, dutiful men that they were, they lugged that thing down to the very last man who, in turn, was imobilized and then finally VAPORIZED. It's just not necessary! Those men don't have to die! I don't like casualties! Even crew casualties! I don't like being responsible for unnecessary deaths!

Hawkeye

I agree with this one.

I really like the idea, it is not really new but that doesn't matter, it should be looked at seriously.

An abandon command in CM2 will be very useful and if may say so, "required" as the Russians were getting over run all the time in the early part of the war weren't they?

We may not see the abandon command in CMBO but I would support a strong lobby campaign for it in CM2

-tom w

[Kingfish]

I've been meaning to ask this question:

Why is it that a near miss will make a mortar crew abandon their weapon, while a .50 MG team can be "Routed !" and still insist on carrying their weapon across an open field, all the while under 88mm DF?

[Guest Michael emrys]

Originally posted by Hawkeye:

I don't like being responsible for unnecessary deaths!

Congratulations. You have just discovered why some commanders are prematurely gray.

Michael

[StellarRat]

Sounds like a good idea, but a programming nightmare. You'd have to have icons for the abandoned weapons so the player could remember where he abandoned them and you'd have to check to see if the abandoned weapons or ammo was damaged by HE or fires while they were laying around. Also, you would probably need to write code so that unmanned weapons could be targeted by the enemy. If you talking about abandoning non-mounted infantry weapons that's a lot of objects to keep track of. Sounds annoying to me.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by StellarRat:

Sounds like a good idea, but a programming nightmare. You'd have to have icons for the abandoned weapons so the player could remember where he abandoned them and you'd have to check to see if the abandoned weapons or ammo was damaged by HE or fires while they were laying around. Also, you would probably need to write code so that unmanned weapons could be targeted by the enemy. If you talking about abandoning non-mounted infantry weapons that's a lot of objects to keep track of. Sounds annoying to me.

Perhaps I should have clairified my position.

In the game as it stands now abandoned weapons can never be re-crewed. Steve and Charles have been adamant that they are not interesting in facilitating the "gamey" play that may result in the ability to re-crew weapons.

So When I suggested I like the idea of an "abandon command" I would propose in the spirit of CM that it would be a last ditch one-way command meaning the weapon would be discarded and the crew would flee for their lives. As all other weapons in CM niether friendly or emeny forces would gain any benifit from any abandoned weapons as it would perhaps be assumed that the abandoning crew would disable or destroy what ever equipment they were abandoning before fleeing.

I would really like to tell my tank crews to "GET the Hell outta There!" when their tank becomes disabled and they are about to be face the certainty of getting knocked out.

I would strongly lobby for an abandon command that presumes the equipment left behind has been disabled and is useless to friend and foe alike.

any other thoughts?

-tom w

[StellarRat]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

When I suggested I like the idea of an "abandon command" I would propose in the spirit of CM that it would be a last ditch one-way command meaning the weapon would be discarded and the crew would flee for their lives.

OK, that doesn't sound like a programming nightmare. I guess that would be an OK command.

[Alexander]

any other thoughts?[\b]

Yeah. The Withdraw command. Right now it's basically used only for grunts. Make a provision that, on using this order, the unit (like mortars and mgs) relinquishes its equioment.

[Tao Xian]

Using the withdraw command to force folks carrying heavy weapons to discard them could be a good solution - it runs a bit a foul when you think that withdrawing troops might want to take that tank or that weapon with them. A pure "abandon" command would be preferable; and I can admit that I wished I had that one to use. The usual situation I find is the immobile last crew member who refuses to flee his weapon. I would respond positively to an "abandon" command where the crews leave their weapons which are lost in the fog of war.

Speaking of which, they are still finding abandoned weapons and ammunition from WWII in the field of France and Germany.

[Tao Xian]

Using the withdraw command to force folks carrying heavy weapons to discard them could be a good solution - it runs a bit a foul when you think that withdrawing troops might want to take that tank or that weapon with them. A pure "abandon" command would be preferable; and I can admit that I wished I had that one to use. The usual situation I find is the immobile last crew member who refuses to flee his weapon. I would respond positively to an "abandon" command where the crews leave their weapons which are lost in the fog of war.

Speaking of which, they are still finding abandoned weapons and ammunition from WWII in the field of France and Germany.

[Juju]

Originally posted by Alexander:

Yeah. The Withdraw command. Right now it's basically used only for grunts. Make a provision that, on using this order, the unit (like mortars and mgs) relinquishes its equioment.

Now there's an idea! I like it!

[Clubfoot]

That is indeed an excellent idea! And surely not too difficult to implement.

Please?

Pretty please?

Clubfoot.

[Steve McClaire]

I like the idea of men abandoning MGs as well as Mortars, and think it could be extended to infantry AT weapons as well -- though this wouldn't be very useful w/o my additional suggestion:

It would be nice if these crews, once they ditch their weapon, were armed with rifles / carbines and could function as small, weak infantry teams. To keep things reasonable, these new 'riflemen' should probably have little (or perhaps even LOW) ammo, and a free '!' to simulate their reduced performance now that they're no longer crewing their normal weapon.

From what I understand, these crewmen did carry rifles, and were basically riflemen with (usually?) some additional training.

[Papa Smurf]

How would re-crewing weapons be gamey?

(I've got the flu so be gentle with me if I'm missing something obvious).

Neil

------------------

I don't sing. I don't dance. I ain't blue. Anything else you need to know?

[KiwiJoe]

Yeah I can't understand how abandoning a gun then re-manning it could be gamey? If some1 abandoned a gun I'd just target it and destroy it without the fear of being shot back at. It makes perfect sense to me that if you saw a 150mm spotting round fall near your postion that you *may* abandon your gun and seek cover till the artillery stops falling. If your gun is destroyed during the bombardment, so be it. If not you could re-man it and continue the fight.