Exit Victory Conditions: Detailed info wanted

[Joe Perez]

Love the game, but having a little trouble grasping how the game handles victory, ESPCIALLY in games involving exiting units from the map.

The manual states that units exited are worth 2-3 times their value in victory points. Well, is it TWO or THREE??? I loaded up a scenario in the editor and couldn't find anywhere in the parameters exactly what a player will get for exiting units. Only the edge of the map units have to exit is mentioned.

Does the game assign 2x or 3x randomly at the beginning of the scenario, inorder to stop player from playing the game with a abacus next to their mouse, so they don't "bean count" victory points? Is it random 2x or 3x as each unit is exited? same multiplier for all units?

The manual stated units not exited are worth 2x-3x their cost for the enemy. Are units destroyed considered "not exited?" (I would think so).

Whether exited or eliminated, are victory points for Infantry/weapons teams pro rated per man, or do you have to wipe out the whole team to get the points? If you exit a unit with one man, are the points pro ratd that way too?

I'm playing the Hell's Highway scenario where the orders state that the Brit tanks I get as reinforcements are the units I should strive to exit from the map for the points. Can a sceanario actually have some units worth points for exit and not others? If not, then the scenario briefing is a little misleading.

Any help as to how the point system works for exiting units is appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe Perez

[JasonC]

Yes, units are tagged "should exit for points" or not on an individual basis. You can see for each one by selecting it and pressing "enter" for the unit details window. A little text message will say "should exit for points" for those units eligible, not for others.

Units exited successfully seem to earn 3x cost for the exiter. Units designated "should exit" that -fail- to exit, seem to earn the other side 2x cost. And the destruction of a unit is additional. Thus a dead exiter fails to exit (2x) and dies (1x), total 3x, which balances a successful exit (3x).

While "alive but not exited" has an intermediate effect - the "live or dead" points go to the owner, but the 2x exit points go to the preventer. So sacrificing an equal or smaller force to successfully prevent enemy exit, will generally count as a success, even if the prevented side mostly lives.

If any appreciable number of units have exit VCs, the outcome of the scenario will be dominated by -how many- of them successfully exit. Exiting -half- while the other half die and fail, will have no net point effect, but will tend to make the outcome closer to a draw from bigger "divisors" for overall points possible.

Exiting most will usually win. Exiting few or none will lose. A single exited tank is more important than a large flag, and even a single eligible squad is typically worth a small one.

Scenario designers should keep in mind how big an impact exit VCs have. And that they are not optional, not some sort of "bonus" points. The "should" in "should exit" is imperative mood, not a suggestion.

Exit VCs are most appropriate when the decisive action is occurring -off- the scenario map itself, so that whether forces get to that action or not, is the most important consideration in the on-map fight.

Also, if other flags and losses are to matter, scenario designers should limit the portion of the force or forces eligible for exit. For example, only making the tanks eligible, not the infantry or lesser vehicles, or part of the infantry rather than all of it.

And when balancing a scenario with exit VCs, keep in mind the "neutral" outcome is not "most alive but not exited". Instead, it is "half manage to exit", so physical exit of at least a portion of the force should not be too hard to achieve.

I hope this helps.

[Grunto IV]

I've been wondering about the same thing myself.

Thanks for the clarification, Jason.

Andy

[Michael Dorosh]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Perez:

The manual states that units exited are worth 2-3 times their value in victory points. Well, is it TWO or THREE??? I loaded up a scenario in the editor and couldn't find anywhere in the parameters exactly what a player will get for exiting units. Only the edge of the map units have to exit is mentioned.

Does the game assign 2x or 3x randomly at the beginning of the scenario, inorder to stop player from playing the game with a abacus next to their mouse, so they don't "bean count" victory points? Is it random 2x or 3x as each unit is exited? same multiplier for all units?

Joe Perez<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No one, not even Battlefront, has provided any answers to this despite repeated pleas on the part of many scenario designers. A true mathematical accounting of how this works is indeed needed for scenario designers to be able to better use these types of victory conditions. I asked Madmatt specific questions and he was going to pass the request on to Steve/Charles, but they have been understandably busy, and I am still waiting for an answer. The other answers provided in the various threads have been far from satisfactory - sorry I can't be of more help, but there really are no solid answers at all.

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Grunto IV]

i just did a little experiment:

small board, 0-level 'hole' in one corner, put a u.s. squad and platoon hq in there.

on the german side i put 2 spw 251/1.

3 turns

in the first game, i exited the two halftracks: 100-0 germans

in the second, i exited one and left the other: 50-50

in the 3rd, i added two baz teams in the hole and put one of the halftracks in there, and exited the other when playing.

one halftrack was eliminated, and 1 escaped. the germans lost, 39-61.

so from that it appears as though it is an even trade for those units which exit or don't exit (and remain intact). on the other hand, for those units which do not exit and are eliminated, the penalty appears to be about 2:1.

so the tradeoff appears to be about 1:1 in points for exiting versus remaining intact, and roughly 1:2 for exiting versus being eliminated.

andy

[Redwolf]

I posted more complete information on exit point calculation in the recent thread out vicotry point calculation, 10 days ago or so. Let me know if you can't get the thread.

Basically, the value of to-exit units is 2.6 or 2.3, depending on the unit type. If it exits, the owner gets the points, if not the opponent. If the opponent kills them, he gets the points the unit is worth extra, plus the 2.3 or 2.6.