Juju Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Today I noticed something for the first time, while playing a CM scenario. I was playing Axis. At a certain point I spotted a 'Halftrack?' I decided to get up close and hit the TAB key. I was instantly placed in front of the HT, facing to the rear. Now, I thought, if that isn't a mortar HT I'm Mickey Mouse. Sure enough, it turned out to be a mortar HT, although that didn't come as a surprise anymore. In fact it spoiled the FOW somewhat. Question: Is this intentional, or a leftover bug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blackthorne Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Yes you can get "up close and personal" with nme units as you describe, but you shouldn't be able to get any more detail than you could from your position. You may have caught the game before the split second that it was going to fully identify the unit for you anyway. ------------------ Blackthorne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 No, I tried it several times. The unit wasn't fully ID'd until after a couple of turns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaba Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 You might want to keep in mind that if you field of view is limited (weather, smoke, night, etc) then you may be viewing a completely wrong unit. For example, playing a scenario a while ago I encountered a "Panther". I was able to TAB and take a good look at it even as it fired upon my troops. As my armour got closer the "Panther" turned out to be a Panzer IV. Whew! Yaba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 I think there is more than one stage to identification, it is not just recognised and not-recognized. The identification may be 80% positive, ie that is some sort of US halftrack or 20% ie that's a tank. I think this is most obviously demonstrated when german AA halftracks are only partially identified: the unit description is given as "SP Gun?", but on the screen the vehicle is shown as a Marder-type with the gun pointing backwards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Well, it seems to me that if your guys can tell its a half-track, then they would be able to tell which direction its facing, right? So doing the tab trick didn't really tell you much more than you would otherwise know. And guessing it was a mortar carrier was due to your knowledge of weapons and how they function, not the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 Originally posted by Panzer Leader: Well, it seems to me that if your guys can tell its a half-track, then they would be able to tell which direction its facing, right? So doing the tab trick didn't really tell you much more than you would otherwise know. And guessing it was a mortar carrier was due to your knowledge of weapons and how they function, not the game. Okay, we'll try this again. Example: Attacker is coming from the south. Defender spots A HT? moving to the north. This HT? looks like a generic M3 HT until fully ID'd as such or as something else. Defender selects the HT?, hits TAB and finds himself focused on the front end of the HT? moving north while actually looking south. Try it; go to the editor, pick a SdKfz7/1, or rearfacing mortar HT, go to the map and select and TAB them. You will notice you are facing the front of the vehicle, looking to the rear. What I mean to say is that it shouldn't give away itsself as a mortar HT as long as it's not fully ID'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Hehe I can feel what it is like to have many people copmpletely not grasp what you are gettinmg at and in consequence give advice/comments that must looks smartaleck in consequence ... yes I know what you mean, I understand your situation and yes it looks like a FOW "bug". It would tell you rear-facing vehicles like the SdKfz 7 AA types, the Achilles and so on. Hmmm....well the only smartaleck workaround advice I could give is maybe just don't jump to the enemy unit, you couldn't do that in reality either, proper ID or not....yeah I know it's weak but I don't charge you money for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 What we have here is a man who drank too many Hoegaardens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Leader Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 Okay I get it. I didn't mean to be short with you. I guess I missed in your first report that the halftrack was 'moving.' But I could see that a moving vehicle facing the wrong way could mean only two things: it was carrying a rear pointing weapon or it was traveling in reverse. Actually, even in reverse a vehicles orientation on 'tab' is still forward, so there you have it. Actually (again) now that I think about it, it doesn't matter whether the vehicle was moving, simply by snapping to the front-facing view on tab proves that it was a rear weapon mounted carrier. Hmm. Guess it is a bug, though pretty small and I can see why they did it. The view needs to follow the weapon so a player can watch who the weapon is targeting. Here is a question. Sometimes you see boxy things. If you 'tabbed' to them would it show you a view of whatever they were aiming at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted March 19, 2001 Author Share Posted March 19, 2001 Originally posted by Kingfish: What we have here is a man who drank too many Hoegaardens. No way, man. I've switched to whisky and cola. less hangovers. Good memory, you. Originally posted by M Hofbauer: Hehe I can feel what it is like to have many people copmpletely not grasp what you are gettinmg at and in consequence give advice/comments that must looks smartaleck in consequence ... Hmmm....well the only smartaleck workaround advice I could give is maybe just don't jump to the enemy unit, you couldn't do that in reality either, proper ID or not....yeah I know it's weak but I don't charge you money for this LOL! to the first part. As for the second bit: I think I'll just accept it as a bug, and keep on jumping to enemy units, because it's fun! and besides, I hardly ever see them rearfacing vehicles in the battles I play. Except for that Sdkfz7/1 in "AN," eh! And it's still alive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellros Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 As far as I can tell, whenever you select a unit and hit TAB, it places you looking at the vehicles field of fire. Therefore you would be looking rearward on a German flak ht, or the early mortar ht. That right there is a giveaway if you have not fully ID'd the vehicle. Same with the Archer, you would end up looking to the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 There's also a trick to find out if enemy troops are in a building, not sure if it is a bug or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted March 20, 2001 Author Share Posted March 20, 2001 Originally posted by M. Bates: There's also a trick to find out if enemy troops are in a building, not sure if it is a bug or not. And what trick would that be? If I knew what it is I could judge myself if it is a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS was 71331 Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 I'm playing the German side in a PBEM game against an American force. A jeep just came into the view of my most forward unit. I selected the jeep and pressed the return key. I was surprised to read that the jeep had a Sharpshooter passenger. I suppose a sharp-eyed observer might recognize a scoped rifle, but I believe this is more info than I'm really entitled to. It would be interesting to know how CM handles Fog of War. When I see that an enemy squad has six able bodied men and four casualties, does that mean my observer sees six guys and subtracts from the normal ten to decide four must have been lost? Has someone supposedly been watching the unit and seen four guys get hit and fall? If a unit disappears from sight and then reappears, how does the observer know that what he's seeing appear is the same unit he saw disappear? Is there a time factor in FOW? Do you find out more and more about an enemy unit every turn the unit is in sight? ------------------ Airborne Combat Engineer Troop Leader (1966-1968) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagdwyrm Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Good Topic...My one gripe is with lost sight markers. I dont like how they disappear when I respot the same unit. If I didnt have full details on the first unit, how would I know they are the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Yes, a good topic... I think there is room for development in these area. Since they are currently working in CM2, it would be nice that these FOW "limitations" would be reviewed for it... Is it me or I just sow a 500m sound contact where I could see a gun being towed And what about that 400m Infantry? contact where I could see a orange line going out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Ever seen those "infantry" sound contacts where the graphic is actually a light gun (which has been merrily plugging away at your armour for four turns)? ------------------ "Za Rodentia!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenaphobe Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Hey MOS was 71331!! Thats MY unit your discussing! Damn! I told that sharpshooter to take the scope off his rifle and act like a medic!!! I bet you could tell his troop quality as well. Funny how you can tell so much about a man flying across the field of battle in a jeep going 35 or 40mph. I just had to post this, its not every day your own personal sharpshooter gets discussed on this forum. He is honored. Too bad the scouts you had didnt live long enough to frag 'em though. Brian aka Zenaphobe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorBeef Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Originally posted by Juju: Today I noticed something for the first time, while playing a CM scenario. I was playing Axis. At a certain point I spotted a 'Halftrack?' I decided to get up close and hit the TAB key. I was instantly placed in front of the HT, facing to the rear. Now, I thought, if that isn't a mortar HT I'm Mickey Mouse. Sure enough, it turned out to be a mortar HT, although that didn't come as a surprise anymore. In fact it spoiled the FOW somewhat. Question: Is this intentional, or a leftover bug? I think this represents the units 'best guess' as to what it is. At first, you get a generic non-descript tank. ID'd as "tank?". And then with more observation your troops might think its a panzer 4. It still says tank? but you, as the player, can clearly recognize the panzer 4. This is just your infantry units guess. It may be further ID'd as a tiger, and then the image of the tank is changed to the tiger. I've had that happen to me. So.. In your situation, it was probably identified as "light armor?" "half track?" ect.. And it changed from a generic half-track.. and then your troops GUESSED that it might be a mortar half-track, so the mortar half-track graphics are displayed. It could turn out to be a 251/1, and once its ID'd, it would graphically become a 251/1. So.. the unit pictures, before positive IDs, reflect the guesses of your troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 oh, juju, it's you, I hadn't realized at first how are things going "up north" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hal9000 Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 I hope that wasn't my mortar HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted March 20, 2001 Author Share Posted March 20, 2001 Originally posted by M Hofbauer: oh, juju, it's you, I hadn't realized at first how are things going "up north" ? One Word: Mayhem! Originally posted by hal9000: I hope that wasn't my mortar HT Nah, that one is long since dead. Now, where are those other vehicles of yours. Send me the file and we'll see about them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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