WineCape Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 Schwere Gustav -- 'heavy Gustav' -- was quite simply the largest artillery piece ever built (800mm or 32-inch), and it is unlikely that such an enormous piece will be ever seen again. Although of fairly conventional design, 'Gustav', as it was known, weighed over 1350 tonnes, with a barrel length of nearly 29m. It had a range of over 47km, and required a crew of up to 2000 men to set up and fire. It fired a 7100-kg shell! The following taken from "History of WWII", an interesting read: To prepare the Germans' attack on the Soviet fortress of Sevastopol, the Germans assembled a massive gun park, including the largest artillery piece in the world - 'schwere Gustav', an 80cm caliber monster gun mounted on a railway train which trundled to the Crimea on specially laid track. Well ahead of its progress a small army of labourers started to prepare the gun's chosen firing position at Bakchisaray, a small village outside Sevastopol. Well over 1,500 men under the control of a German army engineer unit dug through a small knoll to form a wide railway cutting on an arc of double track, and the sides of the cutting were raised to provide cover and protection for the gun. On the approaches railway troops laboured to re-lay track and strengthen possible trouble points against the passing of the 'schwere Gustav'. Work on the eventual firing site reached the point where the area behind the curve of firing tracks resembled a small marshalling yard. Two guard companies constantly patrolled the perimeter of the gun position, and at all times there was a small group of civilian technicians from Krupp who dealt with the technical aspects of their monster charge and advised the soldiers. Firing commenced on 5 June 1942. 'Schwere Gustav' was but one voice (albeit a loud one!) in a huge choir that heralded one of the largest and heaviest artillery bombardments of all time. (By the time Sevastopol fell early in July 1942, it was calculated that no fewer than 562,944 artillery projectiles had fallen on the port.) "Schwere Gustav's" first targets were some coastal batteries that were engaged at a range of +/- 27,340 yards, and all shots were observed by a special Luftwaffe flight of Fieseler Fi-156 Storchs assigned to the gun. 8 shots were all that were required to demolish these targets, and later the same day a further 6 shots were fired at the concrete work known as Fort Stalin. By the end of the day that too was a ruin and preparations were made for the following day. At best the firing rate was 1 round every 15 minutes! The preparation of each shell and charge was considerable and involved taking the temperature of each charge, accurately computing the air temperature and wind currents at altitude and getting the shell and the charge via pulleys to the breech. Projectile and charge then had to rammed accurately, and the whole 29-meter barrel had to be elevated to the correct angle. It all took TIME. 'Schwere Gustav' was in action again on 6 June, initially against Fort Molotov. 7 Shells demolished that structure and then it was the turn of a target known as the 'White Cliff'. This was the aiming point for an underground ammunition magazine under Severnaya Bay, and so placed by the Soviets as to be invulnerable to conventional weapons. It was not invulnerable to the 80cm 'Gustav', for 9 projectiles bored their way down through the sea, through over 100ft of sea bottom and then exploded inside the magazine!By the time 'Gustav' had finished its 9th shot the magazine was a wreck, and to cap it all a small sailing ship had been sunk in the process! The next day (7 June), was the turn of a target known to the Germans as Südwestspitze, an outlying fortification that was to be the subject of an infantry attack later. After 7 shots the target was ready for the infantry to storm, and the gun crew were then able to do some maintenance and a short period of relative rest until 11 June 1942. On that day, Fort Siberia was the recipient of a further 5 shells, and then came another lull for the gun crew until 17 June, when they fired their last operational shell against Fort Maxim Gorki and its attendant coastal battery. Then it was all over for 'schwere Gustav'. Once Sevastopol had fallen on 1 July the German siege train was dispersed all over Europe, and 'schwere Gustav' was taken back to Germany, where its barrel was changed. Including the 48 operational shell fired against the Crimean targets, 'schwere Gustav' had fired about 300 rounds in all, including proofing, training and demonstration rounds. The whole 'Gustav' project had absorbed immense manpower and facilities of all kinds, all to fire 48 rounds at antiquated Crimean fortifications! By May 1945 'schwere Gustav' was scattered all over central Europe. The carefully planned trains had been attacked constantly by Allied aircraft and what parts were still in one piece were wrecked by their crews and left for the Allies' wonderment. Today all that is left of old 'Gustav' are a few inert projectiles in museums. Now, in all probability, Gustav will not be seen in CM2, but please Wild Bill, give us ONE battle scenario in CM2 where we could use this almighty thunder! That’s 1 shot every 15 turns -- LOL! Yeah, amen! Anyone with photo's of almighty Gustav, please link it for us here so we can wonder in amazement at such ... wastage of precious war material and manpower!! Hehe. Brgds Charl Theron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>'Schwere Gustav' was in action again on 6 June, initially against Fort Molotov. 7 Shells demolished that structure and then it was the turn of a target known as the 'White Cliff'. This was the aiming point for an underground ammunition magazine under Severnaya Bay, and so placed by the Soviets as to be invulnerable to conventional weapons. It was not invulnerable to the 80cm 'Gustav', for 9 projectiles bored their way down through the sea, through over 100ft of sea bottom and then exploded inside the magazine!By the time 'Gustav' had finished its 9th shot the magazine was a wreck, and to cap it all a small sailing ship had been sunk in the process!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> F*** me, as if Germany's war on the Eastern Front was not surreal enough already!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> so we can wonder in amazement at such ... wastage of precious war material and manpower!! Hehe. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No kidding! The Germans could have easily developed a whole battery of far more mobile 300mm or so pieces for the effort put into Gustav. There would be no 100m below the sea shot from 300mm guns, though. Its a wonder that the Russians didn't send swarms of Sturmoviks in search of ol' Gustav. Gyrene [ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: Gyrene ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpurkiser Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 [ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: cpurkiser ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 The Barrel of Dora (Gustav's sister) post-war Dora [ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: Babra ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 Here's a not bad site devoted to German railway guns... http://perso.infonie.fr/palpatine/Page13/page13.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacheldraht Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 You can find short videos of Dora, Ziu, and Thor firing here, not to mention many German AFV's. Dora was Gustav's sister weapon. Ziu and Thor were two of the six 60 and 54cm tracked siege mortars the Germans built, know as the Karlgerät, or Gerät 40 and 41. They were used at Sevastopol and elsewhere on the Ostfront. [ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: Stacheldraht ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 How about a 1/35th scale model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacheldraht Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 Anyone know how to save those videos to disk? "Save target as" in IE doesn't work. Windows Media Player 7 won't open them, and while I can open them in Real Player, it doesn't seem you can save them that way either (?). Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 I remember reading from somewhere that Gustav and Dora were in fact the one and same weapon. The gunners just referred to Gustav as Dora, for they preferred a female names for their stuff. Might have been Ian Hogg's book, can't remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacheldraht Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 In Ian V. Hogg's The Guns 1939-45, he speaks of them as separate weapons (p.130). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted April 25, 2001 Author Share Posted April 25, 2001 Thanks Babra for the pics! Great one of the scale model. Did Dora see any active service, i.e. did it Fire in "anger" at any placements/troops? If so, were the firing sequence as well documented as those of Gustav's? Does anybody know what museum, if any, some of these ol' Gustav/Dora shell are stored for display? Kind regards Charl Theron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 The Dresden Military Museum has an "80cm Sprengranate 'Dora'" listed in its catalog. There may be others out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunoReactor Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 That they were actually able to fire the damn thing in Crimea is a testimony to German planning and engineering. Although I hate to put those in national lines, this thing is unique enough for me to break a few personal mottos here and there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted April 25, 2001 Author Share Posted April 25, 2001 Thanks for the Internet link to the video of the Firing of Dora, the sister gun of Gustav, gentleman. The link where the movie file can be downloaded again is http://www.geocities.com/wittmann63/clips.html Impressive stuff! Kind regards Charl Theron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 Question: I am completely ignorant, but did it never occur to the Germans to build or move a massive gun to France, Calais say, and then proceed to shell England? I don't know what the max range of these big WW2 guns was, just wondering what other ppl think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. Bates: Question: I am completely ignorant, but did it never occur to the Germans to build or move a massive gun to France, Calais say, and then proceed to shell England? I don't know what the max range of these big WW2 guns was, just wondering what other ppl think.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Was done. It was called the K5 Leopold RailGun and it sported a 280mm gun. There are wealth of pics and info about that one on the Net... FYI best known cousin is Anzio Annie and as it's said: It ain't over till the fat lady sings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: I remember reading from somewhere that Gustav and Dora were in fact the one and same weapon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh yes. It was from "Twentieth century war machines, Land" <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Designed by Krupp in 1937m the 'Gustav Gerät' was an enormous German rail gun with a calibre of 280mm named in honour of Gustav von Bohlen und Krupp, but was generally known as the 'Dora Gerät' as German artillerymen preferred to give their equipment female names. This has often led to the suggestion that there were in fact two such guns, but this is definitely not the case. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, given that the book got the calibre way off, and given that Hogg says there were two guns, I wouldn't bet my head this is the real stuff... but it might be anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 Well, firstly, all 28cm guns were named Bruno so the author of that piece is hitting mighty wide of the mark. Re Dora's service, Hogg has this to say: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The second equipment, named 'Dora', never, so far as is known, left the proving ground, though where it went to when the war ended remains a mystery. All that fell into Allied hands was a spare barrel and some ammunition, found at Krupp's Meppen Proof range.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> By "Allied" I suspect Hogg means American. Conspiracy theorists are no doubt claiming Herr Hitler had it stashed in the false bottom of his valise when he went through Argentine customs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 I could be wrong on this, but I believe the largest gun (calibur wise) to see service was "Little David". IIRC, it was 900+ mm (914mm comes to mind) and saw limited action in Okinawa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish: I could be wrong on this, but I believe the largest gun (calibur wise) to see service was "Little David".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, but destruction-wise it doesn't hold a candle to Gustav. David had a shell weight of puny 1678 kg compared to Gustav's 4800 or 7100 kg shells. Either of these would be quite a sight in CM though. Must have quite a blast value! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 Hehehe... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Two prjectiles were provided, a light anti-personnel of four-tons weight, ranging twenty-nine miles, or a seven-ton concrete-piercing shell ranging just over twenty-three miles and reputed to penetrate eighty metres of concrete. A 2,000 kg Arrow shell was developed, to range ninety-five miles, but it is doubtful if it was ever fired...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hogg, The Guns 1939-45. Eighty metres! EIGHTY! Holy &%$#...!!! :eek: [ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: Babra ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted April 25, 2001 Share Posted April 25, 2001 some very rough and inaccurate conversions. But, the 14 inch US Naval Gun has a blast value of 2346(!). Simply multiplying that by 2.28 to get to 32 inches would give you a blast value of 5372. :eek: That of course does not take into account diffences in the ratios of the weight of explosives to the caliber of the gun. Still, that would be a big BANG! [ 04-25-2001: Message edited by: Enoch ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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