Col Deadmarsh Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 I've been wondering this for awhile. When do you place these units on "hide" so the enemy doesn't see you? First of all, the tanks...do you only do this when you're in/behind trees to try to make the enemy lose sight of you or will it work if half your tank is behind a building? Do you do it only on defense or in meetings and while attacking too? As for guns...do you keep them on hide waiting for them to open up on an enemy tank or do you find they miss precious opportunities while in this mode? Or, by not hiding them do they take stupid chances by shooting at targets that aren't percentage shots, thereby revealing their position? What have you found works best? ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strat Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Hiding a gun or tank is done best when it is amongst trees. The enemy at long range aren't likely to spot it as easily. Hiding it is basically adding camoflage such as covering it with branches or a camo netting. When a prime target gets in range blast it. I did this once with a 155 mm Howitzer knocking out a JagdTiger at 1000m. Nice kill. [This message has been edited by Strat (edited 03-29-2001).] [This message has been edited by Strat (edited 03-29-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warmaker Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 For guns, I prefer to hide them in positions similar to that of a tank's hull down position, exposing the gun as little as possible. Also, keeping it in good concealment like tall woods is important to me too. Walls add extra cover too. All this helps in the "life-span" of short ranged AT weapons like 50mm ATGs/Puppchens/etc. On the defense, a good tank in a hull-down position is highly effective. For me the Jagdpanzer IV and Hetzers are very effective in a good hulldown position. Simply put, they're almost untouchable. Putting a monster like a Tiger I/II on a small hill but in a hull down position is quite effective gaining a good field of fire and minimizing exposure. Also, their slow moving speed is irrelevant in such positions. Keep in mind in hull-down positions, that the Panther D/A/G are vulnerable to awkward hits to the turret that may deflect a shot to the top of the hull (quite bad). The Panther G Late has this problem fixed though. Also, sometimes I keep my Panzers completely out of sight as a "reserve" to act as a fire-brigade or to mount counterattacks. ------------------ "Uncommon valor was a common virtue"-Adm.Chester Nimitz of the Marines on Iwo Jima [This message has been edited by Warmaker (edited 03-29-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 Towed guns I keep hidden until either a fat juicy target appear at a favourable position, or the gun is about to be overrun by the enemy. I've found that my trials with the Ambush command have been pretty unsuccessful, because either the wrong type of target trigger the ambush, or the enemy never get close to the marker. My current tactic is to have the gun hidden without orders. When a choice target approach a favourable engagement distance, I set an Ambush marker in front of it... Usually hidden guns don't get spotted until they start shooting. For AFVs "hiding" does very little. Read about my woes in this thread: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum7/HTML/000618.html Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted March 29, 2001 Author Share Posted March 29, 2001 BUMP--Need more info. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wildman Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 I've never tried it for tanks, I have always kept them out of the starting point LOS for defend and as a mobile reserve on offence. As for guns, I have had great effect with the Ambusha and hide combination. Especially with schreks, however, good for guns as well. I find that the first shot hit percentage is higher for an ambush first shot that one just comming out of hiding. No data to back that assumption up, just a "gut" feeling. ------------------ Ok, I'm now a squire of the most wonderful and kwazy guy Marlow, but when I finish kicking StevetheRat's butt around, I'd better be rewarded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted March 29, 2001 Share Posted March 29, 2001 All the HIDE command does for tanks is make them quieter--they run their engines at low idle. Hence, it doesn't do much good in most situations. In a sense, to hide a tank you really have to hide it, e.g. behind a building, or--a good trick--far enough back in scattered trees that it can't be seen by anyone outside. Then you can slide it into position to fire when a good target comes along, followed by a reverse command back into the trees. Hull down position is often very effective but isn't quite "hiding"--the turret is (has to be) visible for the tank to acquire it's target. Still, it provides significant protection and the tank might not be seen as readily. The trickly thing about tanks is that they can't fire at a target without also exposing themselves, so tank tactics is all about minimizing (though never eliminating) your own exposure, while trying to maximize the enemy's. With guns, as has been suggested, the HIDE command is very important, and it's almost always good to hide them until a juicy target comes in range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvet Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 I almost always keep guns on a hide command. I give AFVs the hide command at the beginning of a battle if they are in a hidden position (behind a large woods, a building, or a hill). This is to help prevent the opponent from getting a sound contact, which can tip him off and let him start making plans to kill my precious armor! ------------------ Craiger All your victory flag are belong to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncawley@ameritech.net Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Guns are hiding until someone hits their ambush marker, or until there are so many fine targets they all open up. Hiding is their normal state. Some light guns, meant to dust scout type armor (e.g. German 20mm FLAK), are the only exceptions. I don't mind if they get discovered, since their #1 purpose is to prevent scout vehicles from discovering the heavier guns. Tanks hide when behind buildings, hills, or clumps of trees, if they aren't moving that turn, simply to reduce the enemy's chance of sound contacts. If a tank is operating in a village or behind a ridgeline, I usually try to pause a turn on hide after a change of positions, before popping out again into LOS (between buildings, over the crest) - if there is time, obviously. But I do not sacrifice speed for stealth - if I have reasons to move a tank now, then it moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 I'm not sure on this but wouldn't a tank/AFV on hide be less likely to be detected by a sound contact? Useful for ambushes I suppose if CM models the reduced sound caused by 'low idle'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmac@work Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Yes Apache, that's correct. Unfortunately, I've had AFV's in "hide" that kept hiding as other juicy targets drove across their firing arc, presenting side shots, without coming out of hide.... Talk about frustrating? I like to use hide early in the game, but once an AFV has his business end in position for damage dealin' the hide command is NEVER used.... ------------------ All CM All the time! Check out the Dogs of War CM Players Community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 Originally posted by CombinedArms: Hull down position is often very effective but isn't quite "hiding"--the turret is (has to be) visible for the tank to acquire it's target. Still, it provides significant protection and the tank might not be seen as readily. Exception to this rule is the venerable Pz IV .. It's turret armor is quite weak so you're actually making it more vulnerable by making enemies aim for the turret. The hull armor is far more likely to shrug off low-caliber AT munitions than the paper-mache turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted March 30, 2001 Share Posted March 30, 2001 I know what you mean bigmac, having had my prized vet Sherman 76 wiped out by a crappy AC I rarely use Hide once in position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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