Stalin's Organ Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 I'm told that thsi has been answered before, but the machine I'm on has a 4 minute timeout fo the search engine isn't much use! Does ayone know why US mortars are so much more expensive than UK ones? A 4.2" FO, for example, costs 92 pts for the UK, 164 for the US (both regular) - both have the same ammo, and pretty much the same reaction times. Also the 3" is a steal at 111 pts vs 200-something for the US 81. Sure it has a bit less ammo, but it's got much better blast. Is the points cost supposed to represent relative availability or something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 Stalin, part of the reason might be that UK 4.2 mortars have very slow arrival times (3 minutes for a regular spotter is common) and terrible accuracy with huge drop patterns. The British 3" mortars are excellent. Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 One of the reasons I asked was that I am in a game where I bought 3 4.2" brit mortar FO's - each had a 2 minute frop time and when they all fired at hte same target the made it a moonscape! I had no problems with their pattern or times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyrene Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 The times I used Brit 4.2's were on fairly small maps, so the tightness of the pattern was crucial. It is hard to gauge the accuracy of your mortars if there's more than one mission being fired at the same time. The blast of the 4.2 is almost the same as th 105mm (IIRC, I'm away from the game right now), pretty nice if you get it to hit. 2 minute times are pretty good for 4.2, what quality spotter? Gyrene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gyrene: It is hard to gauge the accuracy of your mortars if there's more than one mission being fired at the same time. . 2 minute times are pretty good for 4.2, what quality spotter? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Regular, Airborne. the pattern from the 3 FO's was nice and tight - I'd have been happy with 1 landing within the same boundaries. After all you're expect 3 times the "outliers" with 3 times teh FO's firing too, and there really weren't any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 The US and UK 4.2in mortars do not use the same ammunition, in fact they are quite different weapons. If you bought the US mortars you would find a considerable difference in the blast. The US ones are much nastier and therefore cost more. As for the 3in and 81mm FOOs I guess it is ammunition quantity which makes the difference. IIRC there is no "availability" factor in CMBO pricing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 Thanks Simon - I hadn't thought to check the blast factors!! doh! Yes I know they're different weapons - the US one is rifled with a fixed propellant case IIRC - looks much like a regular artillery shell. The Brit one is a "standard" Stokes/Brandt type smoothbore that fires a projectile much the same as the 3" bomb only bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Thanks Simon - I hadn't thought to check the blast factors!! doh! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, it took a supreme effort of will to restrain the sarcasm there, you being a kiwi and all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 Quite right too Simon - you should never criticise your superiors!! [ 06-19-2001: Message edited by: Stalin's Organ ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 Gee, I have been told by a Tasmanian friend that Kiwis and Aussies are all lower forms of life... Glad I am from Iowa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalin's Organ Posted June 19, 2001 Author Share Posted June 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon: Gee, I have been told by a Tasmanian friend that Kiwis and Aussies are all lower forms of life....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Funny - Tasmania is just the lowest part of Australia....... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Glad I am from Iowa.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Never mind - we can cure you of that these days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tero Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 >As for the 3in and 81mm FOOs I guess it is >ammunition quantity which makes the >difference. IIRC there is no "availability" >factor in CMBO pricing. I thought so too but check out the price tag on the German CAS.... Either they are VERY effective when compared to the Allied CAS or there is a penalty imposed on them because they'd arrive once in a blue moon to fly over the front anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stalin's Organ: Also the 3" is a steal at 111 pts vs 200-something for the US 81. Sure it has a bit less ammo, but it's got much better blast. Is the points cost supposed to represent relative availability or something like that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think you're getting your point costs mixed up. The U.S. 81mm does not cost 200 points, but it does have 200 rounds of ammo. IIRC the U.S. 81mm Regular costs 99 points. Well worth the price. Maybe you're comparing regulars to veterans or cracks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enoch Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 The American 4.2" mortar has a blast value of 72 while the British 4.2" mortar has a blast value of 47. They come with the same ammo, but the british mortar is considerably cheaper (164 vs. 92). If you need the punch then the American mortar is a good buy. But, I think the british mortar is a better overall value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 I did a bit of counting and by the looks of it the UK 4.2 inch mortar is the single most cost effective (blast cost) artillery FO available in CM (not counting the rockets due to their inaccuracy). M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted June 19, 2001 Share Posted June 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mattias: I did a bit of counting and by the looks of it the UK 4.2 inch mortar is the single most cost effective (blast cost) artillery FO available in CM (not counting the rockets due to their inaccuracy). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's true if you only multiply the blast X the number of rounds divided by the cost (BLAST X ROUNDS/COST). But if you take AREA into consideration then you're talking a different ballgame. We know from trig that pi*r(squared)= AREA of a cirlce. Since all blasts in CM are circular we can use this to calculate effective area. For example, an explosion with an effective radius of 5 meters covers appoximately 78.5 square meters. An explosion with an effective radius of 10 covers approximately 314.2 square meters. That's more than 4 times more area than the the 5 meter radius. So the question now becomes: Is the BLAST value in CM directly proportional to a radius or is the area already taken in to account when calculating the BLAST value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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