WolfLord Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Steve, great points and you're right. I guess I realized in the back of my mind that continuing those arguments in a heated manner awhile back would lead to needless agitation. Nevertheless, I let my "hot-tempered" side get the best of me again when I went to DEFCON 2 after what I took to be insinuations made by a few people. Thanks again, Steve, for providing a different way of looking at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 One of the best things I believe is to avoid the flame wars and just let them roll of your back. Many times they are not a flame but a critique that can be answered and discussed. Chupa for example offered a heart felt critique of my methods, to which I replied with what I felt was a post that was above board and hopefully gave Chupa something to think about. Did I change his mind? Maybe not, but we communicated. On another board people have gotten into the habit of posting FNRT (for Flame Not Responded Too) and the moderators will post DNFTT (Do Not Feed the Throll). This gets the hasty post out of the system and does not give the flamer anything to latch onto. Perhaps this board should get into the habit of just not recognizing flames or trolls, and being kinder and more gentle to people like Chupa who have good comments even if they strike close to home. Another thing is that when a person like WolfLord makes an apology, such as he made to BTS -- all should be forgiven. That does not mean people cannot joke about the incident or kid over the misconception -- but they should have their slate wiped clean, rather than bringing up a past transgression forever and a day after. WolfLords apology was very upright and deserves credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 I just want to say that receiving "threatening E-Mails" is about the absolute WORST thing that can happen from a Forum. I've had it happen to me (NOT ON THIS FORUM!!!) and it sucks ass! It's taking things to a much too personal and frankly INVASIVE level. In my case, I actually had to get a guy kicked off his ISP due to threatening E-Mails! To receive them is disheartening and invasive, and I strongly urge anyone who practices this to give it some strong thought next time. In my opinion it is the WORST of online manners. Sorry for the small rant... carry on! On Topic: Love the game guys! [This message has been edited by Mr. Clark (edited 01-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Mr. Clark: I just want to say that receiving "threatening E-Mails" is about the absolute WORST thing that can happen from a Forum. I've had it happen to me (NOT ON THIS FORUM!!!) and it sucks ass! It's taking things to a much too personal and frankly INVASIVE level. In my case, I actually had to get a guy kicked off his ISP due to threatening E-Mails! To receive them is disheartening and invasive, and I strongly urge anyone who practices this to give it some strong thought next time. In my opinion it is the WORST of online manners. Sorry for the small rant... carry on! On Topic: Love the game guys! [This message has been edited by Mr. Clark (edited 01-26-2001).] Mine were more idiotic that anything -- I just sent them to the ISP in question as if they were SPAM. To be ignored and good riddence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Glad to hear it was not anything too serious SlapDragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Mr. Clark: Glad to hear it was not anything too serious SlapDragon. Nope. No idea who they were, the e-mails were less the coherent, and they showed no real brains. If push came to shove and they showed up on my door step, or sent 20 stupid e-mails, then it would be worth looking into. Of course, a door step encounter would be looked into in a completely different manner, but from the messages I doubt these people were older than 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Slapdragon: but from the messages I doubt these people were older than 15. Hee Hee... This is usually the case. (Meaning no offense to anyone who is 15, or 99 for that matter, that can act responsibly) No matter how HUGE of a flame war I get involved in, I have NEVER ONCE had the urge to send E-Mail to someone. It just does not make sense to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLord Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Almost forgot, i'll not indulge in any further USNET flanking attacks either. What you see out there now was posted during the most recent flare-up...not afterwards. Besides my news server has crashed anyway Good gaming all, and good hunting among the hedgerows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by WolfLord: Almost forgot, i'll not indulge in any further USNET flanking attacks either. What you see out there now was posted during the most recent flare-up...not afterwards. Besides my news server has crashed anyway Good gaming all, and good hunting among the hedgerows. That is very adult of you WolfLord, not the crashed server but the other. I, personally, say sorry for any hard feelings and hold out my hand to you. Besides, as a Gamecock, you cannot be all bad . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Oh, in my E-Mail ranting, I forgot to mention that I find this Forum a GREAT place to chat. I have always had an interest in small unit tactics and weapons, but CM opened up the world of large scale warfare, and a general interest in WWII for me. I have learned a great WEALTH of information from reading the discussions here. Thanks to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLord Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Yep, same here, Slapdragon. No hard feelings. If I ever get these equations done one day, I may even have time for a TCP/IP game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 What happened? I was gone all day out of town yesterday, and come back and its Woodstock deju vu. Apologies, acknowledgements of good will towards men, cautions about book burning bondfires, a kinder gentler Cesspool... Where's Hendrix man, I miss him. Yeah, well er ah, to be sure tis all good and true wisdom, if unexpected. Alright, all together now: "When Irish eyes are smiling Sure it's like a morning spring. In the lilt of Irish laughter, You can hear the angels sing. When Irish hearts are happy, All the world seems bright and gay. And when Irish eyes are smiling, Sure, they steal your heart away." ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Well I must say that as an avid competitive player I can find little wrong if anything with CM. Never before have I had a game that has prevented me from buying others.. the last one I bought was Rune... soley for the reason to start learning 3D editing... yet I still only play CM I also have never had a case when I couldn't get a game to work, that I felt the need to devote hours of my time to figure it out... I simply moved on. Recently as many are aware I had a compatiility issue with a combination of devices /software and it was very tough to nail down... fortunately I did, and will be back inthe arena again in a few days (tuns of programming homework and tests this week ) I also must add that I have NEVER been interested in the Russian front in WW2 ...nor the Pacific Theatre.. I now find myself highly anticipating CM2 and learning more about the fight in that end of the world --- that tells me BTS couldnt have done much to improve this game. Well done guys ... this game is awesome.. I like it when I lose and I have no one but me to blame ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Slapdragon: Yes I have been published, three articles and a chapter of a text book, plus a half dozen presentations. THREE papers? Hey, you're not going to get tenure with a performance like that! And postings to online forums don't count -at least not in most universities. But seriously, I don't see any reason why every single posting that you or BTS disagree with has to be replied to when your position has already been stated. I'm sure that you don't really believe that having the last word for the tenth time on the same question is really going to make the forum a better place. I also have to say that I disagree with your evaluation of the Usenet forum; there are fewer flamewars there than here (and yes, fewer messages by a long shot), and messages like the ones that you quoted above are very rare. This is a great forum on a great game, and I am sure that everyone wants to make it better. But as a historian, you know that Inquisitions and self-appointed censors are not conducive to more tolerant societies. Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Henri: THREE papers? Hey, you're not going to get tenure with a performance like that! And postings to online forums don't count -at least not in most universities. But seriously, I don't see any reason why every single posting that you or BTS disagree with has to be replied to when your position has already been stated. I'm sure that you don't really believe that having the last word for the tenth time on the same question is really going to make the forum a better place. Actually Henri, it is completely different, or at least in US academic circles (I do not claim to know those of Canada but I assumed they were the same). A person who posts a suggestion for change to the forum is opening their idea to peer review. I am, on this forum, a peer reviewer -- along with everyone else. I do not know if you have done peer review for articles going into journals (I am assuming you have, but again if I am wrong I am sorry) but when presented with an article that has a historiographical methodological flaw do you let it slide because ten years ago you caught an ariticle with the same flaw and mentioned it in the review? Here, you have to decide if peer review is healthy or not. Lots of academics who have had articles rejected or trashed do not think so. Some journals were even created to get around peer review. But I am one of the people who think healthy peer review is a foundation of successful knowlege building and makes change more likely. If Canadian academic journals do not have peer review like US and European journals I am not saying they are any worse or somehow wrong in how they approach, just that I was litterally brought up with peer review as a foundation for tight thinking, and if people do not want to have their ideas subject to strict critique then maybe they should not post them. Either that or state plainly in the subject that it is just a bitch session and not for dissenting opinion. Besides, I think that BTS also has the right to respond to any post on the board that calls loudly for a change to that game, since many new comers read these things, and they do not know that BTS needs better proof than "my Tiger was killed by a Sherman" to change the game. BTW- On publications, I am not finished with my Ph.D yet, being a young scholar, so 4 publications and a handful of presentations is probably average. [This message has been edited by Slapdragon (edited 01-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Slapdragon: A person who posts a suggestion for change to the forum is opening their idea to peer review. Yes I know about peer review, having been associate editor of three international scientific journals, two of them published in the US, and having reviewed innumerable articles myself in addition to having published a couple of hundred of my own -mostly in peer-reviewed journals published in the US.And you will no doubt be happy to know that peer review is pretty much the same all over the World, although, as everyone knows, the quality of journals does vary. You have a right to your opinion, but comparing the flamefests on this forum to peer reviewing of learned articles is really ludicrous. BTW- On publications, I am not finished with my Ph.D yet, being a young scholar, so 4 publications and a handful of presentations is probably average. Yes, it is even above average for a Ph. D. student, but I was under the impression that you were a professor.I hope that you will have a successful academic career, but believe me, peer reviewing discussion forums is not going to help. Only old tenured professors like me who have graduate students doing all the nitty-gritty work and are nearing retirement and who have tolerant wives can afford to spend as much time as they like on internet forums. I hope that this doesn't sound too patronizing.I do appreciate having professional historians on the forum as well as professional soldiers who can contributre their knowledge to enlighten amateurs like me. Henri [This message has been edited by Henri (edited 01-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Slapdragon: Find a Newsgroup reader and download the files for the last 10 days from omp.sys.ibm.pc.games.war-historical Just signed up. BTW Noticed that Fionn hangs around there. Signed up under the name "Chaffee". Unfortunately someone else already has my "Diceman" handle; however, after reading some of his posts, he appears to be a true Diceman so that's O.K. ------------------ Pair-O-Dice "Once a Diceman, Always a Diceman." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 I hope that this doesn't sound too patronizing.I do appreciate having professional historians on the forum as well as professional soldiers who can contributre their knowledge to enlighten amateurs like me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I never feel patronized by useful commentary. (Edited by removing discussion of reasons for using forum.) I have a lot of reasons, related to what I teach and what I do. E-Mail me on the side Henri and I will send it to you. [This message has been edited by Slapdragon (edited 01-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Grad students--don't do it! Sorry, just an ex-academic here having flashbacks ------------------ When men are inhuman, take care not to feel towards them as they do towards other humans. --Marcus Aurelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Now if we could just get some professional comedians instead of the crackpot volunteers we could put this all on video. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Bruno Weiss: Now if we could just get some professional comedians instead of the crackpot volunteers we could put this all on video. Bruno, we always have you for that Rodney Dangerfield visual appeal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Originally posted by Diceman: Just signed up. BTW Noticed that Fionn hangs around there. Signed up under the name "Chaffee". Unfortunately someone else already has my "Diceman" handle; however, after reading some of his posts, he appears to be a true Diceman so that's O.K. Welcome . Fionn is one of the originals(like Henri and me - I use my real name there) on the group, since it started a few years ago and was promoting CM there even before this board existed. The best thing to do with the group is to ignore the flame wars, remember there's nobody moderating over there and suggesting someone should is guaranteed to start a flame fest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Hey, that's sounds like fun. Kinna like that scene in Tobruk where the British fire mortars from a wadi on an Italian and German armored column parked some distance away from each other but unknown to each other in the dark of the desert. Then the two armored columns blast each other to hell while the British sneak off. Hehe, Diceman, run in there an tell em the place is a mess and you figure they need a moderator, then jump out and watch all the fangs a flashing and fur flying. ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 I think everyone should note what WolfLord said on a public forum today. A more adult comment to calm the flames I have never heard. Someone should recognise that sort of effort and praise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI Tom Posted January 26, 2001 Share Posted January 26, 2001 Well, not to interrupt the conversation that's started after the original post, but I'm posting about the game. (Just late on the uptake, didn't see the forum last night) One thing I'm truly amazed about, is the completely different "feel" the game presents. Never once, no matter how hard I tried, could I get to a level of feeling that I experience in CM from any previous WWII game I've played. The camera shaking, the voices of the men, the sound of the tanks, the terrain, all of it. It seems to put me right there. I am constantly being astonished in this game by something on a regular basis while playing. Examples of this include a certain view of a camera angle that adds a whole new life to the same action that looked differently in another angle. I'm completely immersed by it all. Hell, there are times when I load up the CD that I still rewatch the intro. That tends to sometimes get me into "the mood". It's been an outstanding experience for me, and my personal claim is that the game is as close to perfection as one can get, right now, for a WWII simulation. I am by no means a grog, my knowledge of the finer points of tank armor and weaponry cowers in compairason to some of the individuals on this board. But, and I strongly feel about this, those of us who played the great cardboard monsters, who tried like hell to keep it as realistic as possible, get added dividends with this game. Instead of previously playing other games with the "win any way" thought, but by playing with a conscious of "this is more realistic of how it was done", benefits you in CM. An example, I was one of those gamers who always was conscious of the in-command element. It has helped immensely as I play CM the same way. My squads are rarely out of command and I can point to several instances where that has actually won games for me both against the AI and human opponents. In other games, this wouldn't have made much of an effect. (Board or Software games) It's a great game. I've said it several times before, I'll probably say it several times again, Thank you BTS. (No, I'm not trying for free software or t-shirts or anything.) Now I feel much better. This board is just so full of love today. I'll be singing Kumbaya (no clue on sp) all the way home tonight in traffic. I'll let people cut in front of me as an act of being completely at peace after this post. Then I'll get home, fire up CM and blow the hell outta everything in sight as my adrenaline levels soar. Ok, this last part was just me being a smarta**. GI Tom Edited for my terrible spelling and sentence structure. ------------------ Think before you POST, TEST before you cry BUG and take a "Time-Out" break before you counter-flame the guy that just called you a Plutonian ButtMonkey---Madmatt [This message has been edited by GI Tom (edited 01-26-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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