Dead TC's

[AbramsGunner]

When unbuttoned TC's (or crew causalities in general for that matter) are killed, does it take tanks longer to reload (after recovering from the shock) to simulate one less person in the turret?? Yeah I know the radio operator could take the place of one of them, just wondering if there is a bigger penalty to the tank crew other then an automatic buttoned up status.

[AbramsGunner]

*bump*

[Guest Captitalistdoginchina]

It would also be interesting to know if you score any points for killing the TC ?

This is just my way to give this a bump

[FriendlyFire]

As far as I know it doesn't affect loading time, because a commander never did that (plus isn't the radio operator normally stuck down in the front operating the bow mg?). Of course, now that your tank is buttoned up it can't spot potential threats nearly as well, and is unlikely to get off the first shot in a tank-vs-tank duel.

[Jarmo]

There's also the penalty of losing the bow MG, the radio operator automatically replaces the lost commander, leaving no-one to man the MG.

Hmm.. would this cut the radio connection to other tanks? Maybe there should be additional penalties in CM2?

[Head Mahone]

Originally posted by Jarmo:

There's also the penalty of losing the bow MG, the radio operator automatically replaces the lost commander, leaving no-one to man the MG.

I'm not so sure about that Jarmo. The bow gunner is stuck in the co-driver seat. Why would he stop firing that gun after the panic of losing the TC has settled? It shouldn't have anything to do with giving orders either. TCs don’t have a problem commanding and manning the MG before getting injured……

Just more thought to grow on boys, CHEERS!

-Head

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"I don't need my junkie friends all knockin' at my door. I just wanna do an old time waltz with a buxom Irish whore!"

-Shane MacGowan

[Zakalwe]

Originally posted by Jarmo:

Hmm.. would this cut the radio connection to other tanks? Maybe there should be additional penalties in CM2?

CM2 will have to tweak this dead TC issue. Many of the early war vehicles had one or two-man turrets. For example, in early models of T-34 the commander also acted as the gunner. The loss of the commander would most certainly impact such a tank.

[AbramsGunner]

In CM some type of decrease to combat effectiveness other than the normal decrease to spotting due to the automatic buttoned up status should apply since some folks leave their TC's unbuttoned in the middle of combat to gain the added spotting ability.

There is no reason for a Player to button up (which would DEFINITELY happen if that player was in a real tank in a real firefight..I'm sure that player wouldn't like steel whizzing by his/her head) since the benefit of a TC staying unbuttoned outweighs the fact that the tank will go to automatic buttoned up status in the event that the TC does get killed.

If there is no addition penalty, Players might as well leave the TC unbuttoned (unrealisticly) and gain the additional benefit to spotting for as long as possible until the TC gets killed!

Would love to know what others think about this.

[Lordfluffers]

Agree Abrams, I for one keep my tanks unbuttoned for as long as possible even though were I the TC I would button up the minute metal strted shooting thru the air. I hope in CM2 there will be a stiff performance penalty for losing the TC.

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by AbramsGunner:

I'm sure that player wouldn't like steel whizzing by his/her head)

You think the infantry like it any more?

Turning to another issue raised by another -

I wrote to BTS a while ago asking about how casualty points are determined, Madmatt passed on the question and I am still waiting for an answer - I imagine the guys are busy working on CM2 so I can be patient. But the question of how casualties affect victory points is an excellent one. I was especially interested in knowing if casualties suffered are penalized twice - ie points given to the enemy first for them becoming casualties, and then secondly for not exiting.

Would also be interested in knowing if the crew casualties are counted seperately from vehicle casualties.

If your tank is designated to exit, is the crew also designated as such in event of a bail out?

Is this realistic if true? Would a tank crew not be expected to go back rather than forward?

[Jarmo]

The penalty is real, losing the bow MG is a great blow to the effectiveness of the vehicle. Also, if you don't lose the TC you can unbutton later, losing the TC means you're half blind for the rest of the match.

I know I almost always have my TC's button up when the bullets start flying too close.

[JunoReactor]

As far as I have discrened so far, losing the TC loses you pretty much the tank.

Its spotting ability rivals Steve Wonder, when it finally spots something, it reacts slower than a stoned turtle.

I guess thats enough penalty...

[AbramsGunner]

Is the spotting ability and reaction time of a buttoned tank WITH the TC alive better and faster then a tank buttoned because the TC IS DEAD????

if this isn't the case, you might as well have the TC unbuttoned until he dies because there is no real advantage to having a live TC buttoned up...You end up acquiring the spotting disadvantage early since there is no difference between a tank with a live TC buttoned up and a tank with a dead TC. Each has the same combat effectiveness.

The reason real TC's button up in combat is to protect their butts. Given the choice all TC's would like to be unbuttoned because it definitely gives you an advantage in spotting the enemy as well as manuevering the tank...But obviously this is a game and some people could care less if casaulties occur, especially if a TC that is worth more risking his life to gain a spotting advantage that is going to be gone when the tank is buttoned up whether he is dead or not.

Would like to hear more from people on if they button up early, like myself and others, or not.

[AbramsGunner]

*bump*

[JunoReactor]

Ahem... If the TC is gone, the tank is LESS effective than a The-Chicken****-TC-Has-Buttoned-Again tank.

Sorry, I must always add a dose of ambiguity. But I think the meaning penetrates.

[JoePrivate]

Purely my observations, but I think there is only a penalty for being buttoned in reaction/spotting, anywhere from a handful of seconds to more than a dozen. I have never seen a difference in reaction/spotting between a buttoned tank w/TC alive versus a buttoned tank w/TC dead, apart from the short period of 'shock'. I have read here that reload times are affected but again I hadn't noticed that myself in play. I guess a meticulous person could setup tests in the editor to find out one way or another, or some 'authority' can simply tell us.