mensch Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M. Bates: I'm sure it was not all one-way traffic, the Red Indians must have done something to the Americans in the first place.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> your right m. bates, those lousy indians! how dare they be there before the white man, I mean jeez they are barbarians, RIGHT! nature crap and all.. and having all that land and not sharing it 05% to 95% for the white man.. jerks just think there is still no official "sorry" from the united States of what ever it is... the true nations of America are the Cree, Blackfoot, Blackhawks, and hundreds more.. some don't exist any more .. geee as if wiped out like ..hmmm the millions. right.. now I got that off my chest.. whos up for something like a quiet game of CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 I know where your coming from Elijah. I used to truly believe that almost anything could be justified, and that it all it took was seeing it from a different angle. The belief that eating cheese is wrong, from a vegan's point a view, can be used to prove that nothing is wrong or right. Let me ask you this. What justification is there for killing another human being? I say self-defense, Capitol Punishment, and war are exceptions, because that is how I feel. But disregard what I said earlier about this. In reality NO ONE SHOULD KILL ANYONE. War is a very very poor justification. Capitol punishment is at best hipacritical, and a true believer that Human Life is sacred would rather be killed by a mugger than kill in self defense. I am still able to see things from others points of view. I can understand why the Aztecs believed human sacrifice was needed to make the sun rise. I am familiar with Ancient Roman virtues and I find it very easy to understand why such a civilized people could watch men die for sport. I can see why you probably don't like the word "evil". I find it very cartoony and story bookish, personally. When someone says "evil" I think of the Emperor from Star Wars or some other fantasy setting. Im not trying to tell anyone what to think. And I will admit that moral absolution is the very thing that makes holocausts happen. But a line must be drawn. The atrocities commited by Nazis are wrong. If you think that there is no such thing as right or wrong, this conversation cannot possibly go any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Space Thing Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Hey you guys. Since you are getting philosophical here, I thought that I'd offer my two cents worth: If you look at it closely, evil can be defined as the ignorance of the sanctity of all life. It doesn't matter who you are -or were. Hitler, Stalin, a serial killer or anyone else who is ignorant that all life is sacred -is evil IMHO. It doesn't matter what the reasons are for the ignorance either. Not knowing something is simply not knowing. When someone wakes up from that sleep like condition, great changes can take place. Hopefully, everyone will wake up to the simple fact that ALL life is sacred. (Before they kill.) Then, the only places where war will be is on our computer screens with even cooler mods. It seems strange to say it, but thank goodness for nuclear weapons. I was thinking that without them the world would be in the same pickle that it was in 50 years ago. Probably several times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: And it's not that simple, Scipio. The American Ideal won the war, so America is wrong (Or haven't you noticed how much we've criticized ourselves for our conduct with Hiroshima, the Phillipines, the indigenous peoples of the Americas, minorities, et cetera.) We've bashed ourselves more than the combined intellectual elite of Europe could in 100 years.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL, you should what German politics say nearly everyday about Germany and the 'special responsibilty' we have because of our history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Guy w/gun: And to me Murder is not putting an end to the life of those who do murder. Murder often takes place during war, and those people are war criminals and should be hung.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Is this the mathematic that's teached in USA? One kill + one kill = 0 kills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 17, 2001 Share Posted January 17, 2001 Thank you Scipio for not reading my follow up post. If you'll notice I even go so far to state that the belief that Capitol punishment isn't murder is "at best Hipacritical (sic)" In other words, I'm criticizing myself for that statement. Before you insult someone or there country, make sure you read any and all of there follow-ups. You never know, they might just have retracted an earlier statement they realized was invalid. Thanks [This message has been edited by Guy w/gun (edited 01-17-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 By the way, did anyone see the TNT original movie Nuremburg? In it, the US Army psychologist interviews the Nazi's being tried. In the movie the commandant of Auchwitz casually describes his ability to kill mass amounts of people, but says that max capacity was "exhasting" to his staff. Later the Psychologist says that he thinks he has a definition for evil-a complete lack of empathy for fellow human beings. Not a hate, but a lack of any feeling what so ever. After some thought about this, I realized that if there truly is evil, this comes close. IMHO of course. [This message has been edited by Guy w/gun (edited 01-17-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Guy w/gun: Thank you Scipio for not reading my follow up post. If you'll notice I even go so far to state that the belief that Capitol punishment isn't murder is "at best Hipacritical (sic)" In other words, I'm criticizing myself for that statement. Before you insult someone or there country, make sure you read any and all of there follow-ups. You never know, they might just have retracted an earlier statement they realized was invalid. Thanks [This message has been edited by Guy w/gun (edited 01-17-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry, no offense against you personally. I'm sure there are enough people that like the capital punishment. Your next president is one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Steve P. Wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Bruno -excellent post But you did forget one thing. Anglo-Saxon comes from the Angles and Saxon tribes which invaded Britain from northern Germany. So it's the Germans fault after all<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Okay wisenheimer, hehe I'll buy that. However, the Northern Germanic tribes were a societal product of previous Norse invasions I believe. Therefore, one would have to conclude that it is indeed the Danish, and the Sweds, if not the Icelanders, who must bear overall responsibility for the conduct of the Western civilization, at least within the last couple of thousand years. And no Scipio, he ain't my President. The bumper sticker on my truck says; "Don't blame me, my vote wasn't counted!" ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 01-17-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Guy, I'll take it one step further and say that all death is justified as it is a necessary part of life. Our mortality defines us, sir, and without the countless vagaries of mankind, life would be nothing more than working in a cubicle and eating at McDonalds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Space Thing Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruno Weiss: Steve P. Wrote: The bumper sticker on my truck says; "Don't blame me, my vote wasn't counted!" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey, where can you get one of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Ugh...Don't get me started on Capitol Punishment! It's bad enough with all this Nazi crap going on. If you really must know, I don't know what to think of Capitol punishment. At the most basic (and socially blind)level, I think that just as we award those who help society with noble prizes, we should also practice the most extreme measures against those who harm humanity. But yeah, it's not that simple. I'm still not convinced that there is a racial bias in Capitol Punishment. And to very truthful, killing criminals isn't the best way to run things. Trying harder to PREVENT crimnal activity is better, but I admit that in the US that would be near impossible. As to Bush, US repubs always have ideas that seem good, until you start to examine them with more complex questions. Democrats try to seem more accomodating to the minority, when in reality there the exact same demgraphic as the repubs. So I expressed my interest in the past US election and voted "Donald Duck" if you get my drift ! And to BTS, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE lock this thread. I've already pissed of my quota of people for the year!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetherat Posted January 18, 2001 Author Share Posted January 18, 2001 I hereby formally apologise for my earlier post. It was rude and slightly (actually, quite a lot) brainless and was a heat-of-the-moment reaction. Again, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetherat Posted January 18, 2001 Author Share Posted January 18, 2001 No, no. I'm not looking far enough! What I really apologise for is posting the damn picture in the first place! Holy Jesus, if I knew it was going to come to this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 OK Elijah. Now I'm really through. I know what your doing. Who was it, Socrates or Plato, who argued with another Philospher (forgot his name too) and all the Philosopher did was deny the very points that Soc (or Plato) built his arguments on. Without a foundation to be agreed on, intelligent arguments go no where. Thats a basic lesson any first year college student learns. Arguments require common ground, and you choose to build non. So thank you for the stimulating discussion, but I'm not going to continue when someone who chooses not to do it constructively Nothing personal of course . [This message has been edited by Guy w/gun (edited 01-17-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 No need for apology, It's OUR fault, not yours, friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basebal351 Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: Oh come on people, there is no such thing as good or evil. Those are judgement calls made up to suit the times. One of the amazing things to remember is that before WWII, it was accepted practice to do just what the Nazis did. We Americans (And the British) neutered mentally handicapped people and eugenics was not a dirty word. Wholesale slaughter of people happened ALL THE TIME (Christians in Azerbaijan during WWI being an oft pointed to example). Racism was well established and scientificly backed up. Et cetera, et cetera. WWII made these things evil in popular opinion. It did this because the allies put together a campaign to sway public opinion just as surely as they put together a campaign to defeat the Axis. The result of this was a change in public opinion leading to the emancipation of India, the Civil Rights crusades of the US and the entire political correct movement. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Excellent post Elijah. That's a view that I, and a few others in my old history class held. It takes some advanced thinking to be able to be able to take a stance such as that one, and an ability to NOT just follow the popular concensus. Many people are all too willing to put force their morals and beliefs onto other people, and time periods. In my honest opinion, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Space thing, try http://www.evolvefish.com/fish/index.html for some exellent stickers and other stuff. For freethinkers everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Hi Guys, Time to lock this one up indeed me thinks. Its far off topic, not to mention the flame factor is about as great as someone holding a lit match in a gunpowder fatory Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted January 18, 2001 Share Posted January 18, 2001 Thank you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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