Juardis Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 [sorry, meant to put a question mark in the topic] Or I should ask is it ineffective unless it's being done by arty? Does anyone use area fire with tanks or MGs? I do but only if I know that no other units will appear in LOS since they are loathe to break lock. What I'm referring to though is when you want to cross an open space and you know or suspect the enemy is in some trees or a house. If you target the area I don't see where the units in that area are suppressed. Furthermore, when they then expose themselves to fire at your units, your area fire is not adjusted to direct fire. Since suppression was the goal of area fire, shouldn't the target be adjusted? As it is now, I usually let the enemy fire first and expose himself and hope that my covering force will react to that. Has anyone seen area fire changed to direct fire when the enemy appears in that area? ------------------ Jeff Abbott [This message has been edited by Juardis (edited 01-24-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeski Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Although it never seems to work for me. Just the other day, my opponent was using area fire on a house, (just to blow it up) so I thought now's the time to sneak in with a zook. Soon as the zook moved in for the kill his armor quit area targeting, and turned on the zook. I was surprised because this has not been my experience. ------------------ "If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them." - Jack Handey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted January 24, 2001 Author Share Posted January 24, 2001 Originally posted by joeski: Soon as the zook moved in for the kill his armor quit area targeting, and turned on the zook. I was surprised because this has not been my experience. That's interesting. I'm beginning to believe that there are special spotting/targetting rules just for AT teams . Maybe in 1.1 BTS made area target lock break easier? Basically, I'm looking for a way to employ real world suppression tactics in support of an assault or attack. Area targetting doesn't (or shall I say didn't use to) work for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeski Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 I have tried supressing AT guns and HMG's with some results. (Nothing good for infantry except arty like you mentioned) I've read to area target around the gun or infantry you want to surpress then move in. I've tried several different ways, but area target doesn't seems to help. What I use now are either mortars, or swarm. Swarm being two squads using direct fire while I split the 3rd, and move in from 2 different directions. Seems to work with AT & MG guns not so much with infantry though. If anyone does know a better way for actually surpression I'm with Juardis let me know. ------------------ "If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them." - Jack Handey [This message has been edited by joeski (edited 01-24-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annalist Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Originally posted by Juardis: [sorry, meant to put a question mark in the topic] What I'm referring to though is when you want to cross an open space and you know or suspect the enemy is in some trees or a house. What you're talking about here is recon by fire. I use it too. Does anyone use area fire with tanks or MGs? I do but only if I know that no other units will appear in LOS since they are loathe to break lock. I have this same problem. It says in the manual that units will ignore your targeting orders if a more attractive/threatening target appears. It doesn't seem to work, for me at least, if I give an area fire order. I was playing the drive to Mortain op and lost my lead tank to an AT gun. I set an area fire order for the clump of trees where I thought it might be in hopes of suppressing the crew. During the turn, the gun got spotted in an open field on the opposite side of the road. The tank did not change targets. I know the tank had line of sight to the gun because the gun killed it with its 3rd or 4th shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Originally posted by joeski: Although it never seems to work for me. Just the other day, my opponent was using area fire on a house, (just to blow it up) so I thought now's the time to sneak in with a zook. Soon as the zook moved in for the kill his armor quit area targeting, and turned on the zook. I was surprised because this has not been my experience. I use my tanks to flaten houses all the time. I also use area targets on tanks to keep them looking and pointing and firing EXACTLLY where I perceive the nest threat to be comeing from. I like area target, because as soon as a REAL valid target comes into there line of sight they will pick it up and shoot at it right away. You expect that if your enemy's tanks are area targeting something if you get one of your units close to the area being targeted they will get picked up sighted and targeted them selves. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 In Attack, if you do good recon, you could see the foxholes before the troops. I used MG fire against foxholes for suppression, without seeing the troops in it with good success from Last Defense days with the Beta Demo to now. Ariel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Don't underestimate the blast effect of HE in an area fire mode. I use it quite successfully. ------------------ When it's my turn to march up to Glory, I'm gonna have one HELL of a story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 It does seem fairly ineffective sometimes but I think that the main problem with it is it's not 'area' fire at all, it's 'point' fire. You can't spray a hedge line with MG fire or work it over with HE which was a fairly common practice. Pity. ------------------ Muddying the waters as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Annalist: I have this same problem. It says in the manual that units will ignore your targeting orders if a more attractive/threatening target appears. It doesn't seem to work, for me at least, if I give an area fire order. I was playing the drive to Mortain op and lost my lead tank to an AT gun. I set an area fire order for the clump of trees where I thought it might be in hopes of suppressing the crew. During the turn, the gun got spotted in an open field on the opposite side of the road. The tank did not change targets. I know the tank had line of sight to the gun because the gun killed it with its 3rd or 4th shot. Uh, that doesn't necessarily follow. The AT gun has a much smaller silhouette and could probably spot the tank before the tank spotted it, especially if the tank happened to be already concentrating on another target at the time. Although I will concede that the tank crew must have been pretty preoccupied not to notice three or four shots being fired at it! Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 The only real problem I've had with area fire is that it isn't, at least not for tank guns. If you target a spot on the ground for area fire with a tank main gun, it will shoot at that spot with all rounds instead if some somewhat spread pattern. I'd expect at least a ten metres radius to be targeted instead of a point. For MGs it seems to work better though. Cheers Olle ------------------ Strategy is the art of avoiding a fair fight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMplayer Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Olle Petersson: The only real problem I've had with area fire is that it isn't, at least not for tank guns. If you target a spot on the ground for area fire with a tank main gun, it will shoot at that spot with all rounds instead if some somewhat spread pattern. I'd expect at least a ten metres radius to be targeted instead of a point. For MGs it seems to work better though. Cheers Olle Why not a 'wide area target' rather like the command that already exists for indirect fire. regards, --Rett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Khann Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 It would be nice to have two "area target" comands. One would work the way area targeting currently works in the game, which is to target a specific point. It would be great to see a "wide area target" command added for those times when I want to put suppressing fire on an area rather than just a single point. Papa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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