WolfLord Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Steve, many thanks for the quick reply. BTS support is unbeatable. However, as Panther pointed out, I am also curious about the armor point allocation in QB CA MEs ver. 1.1. I also find this to be a more serious concern than the German " armor vulnerability" issue. Would love to be able to play a 1000pt QB CA again with a self propelled arty unit helping my meager 2 tanks out against infantry. Not to mention playable 1000pt QB CA MEs with computer generated forces. This dosent seem to be any more historically inaccurate than what I have to resort to now...Pumas and 75mm Assault Halftraks. Anyway, getting back to this topic. Whomever is interested, just created 2 scenarios for tests mentioned above. One at 1050m and one at 550m. I played each scenario 10 times. Results for the 1050m scenario were 7 wins Axis and 3 wins Allies...BARELY and most battles were very close. For the 550m scen: 4 wins Axis and 6 wins Allies. In all 20 tests there were 3 or less Panthers operational in the end...one 550 scen had 4 operational TDs (bad luck?). This is probably a moot point as we should see more realistic outcomes with the upcoming patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Although this is only a single game and my opponent did not make the best choices, I just finished a 1000-pt TCPIP QB game where I was the Germans doing an Assault against the US.In this case, it seemed to me that the Germans were favored. As the Germans, I got 1750 points to the 1000 of the Allies, so I chose a Panther, a STGIII, a STUH42 and 2 Hetzers, plus a veteran SS motorized infantry company and a regular SS Rifle platoon, in addition to a 120 mm mortar, a 75mm halftrack and a 234/9 halftrack. Two 81 mm mortars come with the SS company. The Allies chose a Heavy Weapons Company (probably not a good choice), 2 M8s, a Priest and some artillery, plus some wire and TRPs. To make a long story short, the Allies were massacred after 18 of the 30-move game, 63 casualties to 15. After acertaining that the flags seemed weakly protected, I exploited the fact that a road ran diagonally across the map far behind his position, and I sent the 234/3 racing to the end then behind his position, where it clobbered his heavy artillery before it had a chance to do much damage. This also scared the M8 in the area to advance towards my line, right in front of one of my Hetzers -scratch one M8... I advanced two platoons on the right side of the map supported by artillery, while two otehr platoons covered the middle, where there was little action. When my infantry had verified that there were no nearby AT guns or enemy infantry, I advanced my tanks behind my infantry, and they had a field day blasting the heavy machineguns defending the flags. As my infantry advanced to take the flags, he was forced to expose his Priest and remaining M8, who were quickly dispatched at the cost of my 75 mm halftrack. The rest was mopping up, and my Panther didn't even have to enter the fray. This was such a rollover that I have some doubts about whether my opponent could have done any better with his 1000 points. It seems to me that with a kick-ass force like I had, any 1000-pt Allied disposition is gonna have a helluva time holding off my force. True the covered terrain on the flanks and the open terrain in the middle gave my units good LOS without exposing their flanks, whereas his lack of AT guns left him with only a few MGs to ward off my veteran SS troopers suported by an impressive array of armor and artillery. A heavy weapons Company is no substitute for a Rifle Company in a battle like this. So my question is: is it possible for the Allies to put together a 1000-pt defensive array that has a good chance of countering the 1750-point assault array that I put together? It doesn't look that way to me, but perhaps there are other opinions? Those 5 German tanks pack a lot of punch, and those 4 SS platoons are not easy to stop if they keep their distance until the US infantry is badly hurt. henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob/1 Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 come on think about it the Germans did loss the war...hum I wonder why...well the allies had 453464, agast 1234 but hay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Guys... I'm going to make a post about the logic behind the point changes. It will be a new thread as the previous ones have been rather, uhm... heated and generally misinformed. Best to start in with a clean slate BTW, we made another change to 1.12 (should have been in for 1.1) that does NOT favor the Allies. The best Allied "über tank", the Jumbo, has been made significantly less effective against big German AT rounds (88 for sure, 75 in certain circumstances) by lowering the armor value for the mantlet. So with 1.1/1.12 there has been two changes that negatively effect the Allies. Some people like to forget things like this when talking about which side is "favored" by us Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther131 Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Uhh...its easy too forget stuff like that when allies have a 50% advantage in armor in combined arms QB ME's. And of cousre, everyone likes german armor more then allied! Of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Henri, Yes it is possible to put together a serious defensive position with 1000 points. It sounds like you had a rollover because the opponent chose / played poorly, but one sparrow does not make a summer (or something like that ). To start with, as you yourself suggest, a rifle company to hold ground and some AT guns would probably come in pretty handy in the defence. Defending is always difficult against a determined and practiced attacker, but it is fun when it works and you can actually win total victories sometimes. Bruce ps: I'm back from Nepal after 7 weeks and this is my first post. Go easy on me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-E Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Mr Clark Said: > I think I missed the part in the Rulebook > where it says if you play the Germans you > automatically win. I guess that's what I've > been doing wrong all this time... Page 174 (1st paragraph) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -E: Mr Clark Said: > I think I missed the part in the Rulebook > where it says if you play the Germans you > automatically win. I guess that's what I've > been doing wrong all this time... Page 174 (1st paragraph)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Damn, he is right. I guess I should have chosen axis when playing Meeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK6583 Posted January 22, 2001 Share Posted January 22, 2001 Well I feel I have to chime in here, although I will state that this is not a complaining post. I was playing a scenario where 4 crack Tigers were plunking allied tanks at a range of about 2200 meters for almost 10 turns with no losses to themselves. Then I downloaded v1.1 and in the span of two turns lost all 4 Tigers to FRONTAL armor penetrations! I exited and checked the allied tanks and found several with tungsten rounds. I guess that must have been it - what a difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 For what it's worth, I was losing Pz IVh's to lone STUARTS head-on in the Desobry op with pretty much one hit, one kill ratios. Admittedly some of those were "hit a turret weak point", in ~300m range and the PZ IVh turret armor is pretty bad, but _that_ bad? I still kicked AI's ass, just had very heavy casualties despite concentrating firepower + going out of my way to have narrow fields of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Originally posted by Barleyman: For what it's worth, I was losing Pz IVh's to lone STUARTS head-on in the Desobry op with pretty much one hit, one kill ratios. Admittedly some of those were "hit a turret weak point", in ~300m range and the PZ IVh turret armor is pretty bad, but _that_ bad? I still kicked AI's ass, just had very heavy casualties despite concentrating firepower + going out of my way to have narrow fields of fire. That is why a Stuart is 99 odd points. Let any tank get within 300 meters of any other, except for the most extreme examples, and bad things start to happen. The Stuart has lots of other downfalls, like its 37 is not very good against infantry and it is very vulnerable to fausts. Plus if anything hits it, including a Lynx, it is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Originally posted by Barleyman: Admittedly some of those were "hit a turret weak point", in ~300m range and the PZ IVh turret armor is pretty bad, but _that_ bad? It's that bad. Mk IV turret is only 50mm thick. The Stuart's gun can penetrate it out to around 700-800 meters or so. ------------------ You've never heard music until you've heard the bleating of a gut-shot cesspooler. -Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkut Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Read this thread with interest, and have to add my pennies worth. With all the talk about german armour being made more vulnerable, I am playing a QB and have observed one of my fireflys getting the crap shot out of it by a PzIV/70. The Firefly (veteran crew) did not use any of it's tungsten rounds against the german AFV. In the next turn, I fully expect the firefly who has taken three hits (Gun damaged, immobilised, penetration through front glacis) to be taken out. Is the AI determining the use of tungsten against a threat rating for a certain kind of vehicle? ------------------ BERKUT <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As always feel free to query, deride, or just nod knowingly<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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