Cpt B M Deleted Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 When my grandfather was in WWII he said that there were metal rods on the front of jeeps and AFVs and the like. The purpose for this was because "those kraut bastards" strung piano wire across roads and passes to take troops' heads off when driving down unexpectedly. Will these be seen on vehicles in CM?? If not, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted June 8, 2000 Share Posted June 8, 2000 I would think they would only be included if the wires they were to protect against were also included. I haven't seen any mention of the inclusion of the piano wires, so the wire cutters would be superfluous. This kind of reminds me of another ambush technique that could be cool, but would most likely never be included: the use of daisy chain mines attached to rope or cable. Occasionally, when setting up ambushes, engineers would attach a rope to some daisy chains and hide the mines in some brush on one side of a road. They would then cross to the other side of the road, cover up and hide and just as an enemy vehicle was about to cross in front of them they would pull the mines across the road and blammo, no more lead vehicle. Then others armed with 'zooks or anti-tank guns would open fire on the remaining vehicles in the column. Neat trick, but not likely to ever be included in the game, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 This would probably fit under the same context as boobietrapped buildings. Mmmm boooobies.... These weren't used close to a defensive line, but, rather to delay an advancing enemy during a retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyland Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 Why do only Poles get to snip wires? Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt B M Deleted Posted June 9, 2000 Author Share Posted June 9, 2000 Well, hold on a second. Just because Germans don't string piano wire in the game doesn't mean the feature shouldn't be added to at least jeeps. You see, it's simply a matter of historical accuracy. Now, if you look at the new screenshots of tanks (specifically M-4s) on CMHQ, you will see Axes and big wrenches on the back of the tank. You never use them, but none the less they WERE used in real life, but we never see them used in CM. Again, I simply point back to the matter of historical accuracy. [This message has been edited by Capt. Manieri (edited 06-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 Capt. Manieri, The wrenches and tools on the back of tanks have to be there. Just because you don't see them being used, doesn't mean they are not being used. How do you think the imobilized tanks in operations get fixed? Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Lorak's FTX for CM <--Proud member of the Combat Mission Webring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt B M Deleted Posted June 9, 2000 Author Share Posted June 9, 2000 Well Lorak, that's exactly my point. Just because you don't see them used, doesn't mean they aren't used. Same goes for wire poles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 umm... guess you got me there Capt. Easy enough to fix though. If you really want a wire cutter, then just open a .bmp in something like paintshop and add a little green line to the jeep. It was just a piece of v shaped metal. Much like whats on a helicopter today, just not as big. Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Lorak's FTX for CM <--Proud member of the Combat Mission Webring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 Uh... I think it comes down to more of a matter of taking the time to change the 3D models of the jeep (an extrusion like Capt. Manieri mentioned would require new vertices... or something like that). The tools on the AFVs are only textures. You can make an AFV texture sans tools. Some Shermans had "Cullin's" devices (not sure of the exact name)in the front of their hull to help in breaching bocage. We MAY see that (unexposed feature ?), but more than likely not at this point. If a weapon system or tactical maneuver was consistently used in a practical manner (that fits within CM's scope) then it may be included in the future. Such decisions are obviously up to Charles & Steve as to whether it is worth taking the time to model or not. [This message has been edited by Schrullenhaft (edited 06-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 On American tanks during the era of hedgerow fighting in Normandy have those buldozer teeth in front of their tanks to push their way through the undergrowth. However, they aren't visually modeled in the game, as, it wasn't universal. If this, and your Poles on Jeeps (unless they are Polish Jeeps ) would require for every American vehicle to have 2-3 extra VERSIONS! This would require massive amounts of coding and texturing just to add some superficial additions to things that weren't totally universal. Tools were on just about every tank, these Poles on vehicles weren't as common, even thouth they DID exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt B M Deleted Posted June 9, 2000 Author Share Posted June 9, 2000 All I'm saying, is that, if you can add'em on at some point with a patch, then God bless. But if you can't, I don't care. No harm no foul. [This message has been edited by Capt. Manieri (edited 06-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 Couple of quick points * They would add to the polygon count, thus reducing fps for something that...... * .......Ive never seen in any pictures Im not saying it wasnt used, but it was obviously not the most common device so it is something that can be left without any harm bring done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 Kwazy, I have a picture of a jeep with wire cutters in my grubby little hands. I wish I could scan it. But it pretty much looks exactly kike you'd think. And if I remember correctly, all Allied tanks are assumed to have hedgrow cutters on their tanks, they are just not shown. And, no, I'm not doing a search. I'm lazy. Jason ------------------ Betas available to everyone are just publicity stunts anyways. -FK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 I've seen them in pictures, but I still wouldn't put them in. To put it simply: they weren't "stock". They weren't universal and were actually a "field modification". So if we base our textures on "average" vehicles, then they shouldn't be there. Just as Schrullenhaft said, we can't expect to see cullins hedgrerow devices on every M4 can we? Though I have always thought they made the jeeps look "tougher". Zamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted June 9, 2000 Share Posted June 9, 2000 It's true than even if historically present, some of the things that DID happen can't be shown for the sake of accuracy. Some of that have to be abstracted and supposed to be modeled in the behavior of the game. IE: Wire in ambush -> Wire cutters -> Back to square one. Stands true for the Bocage, the tanks go through because the Bulldozer like ones are modelled in an abstracted way. That's precisely why Jeeps, trucks and recons vehicules don't. So, for sake of polygons count and for a more wide spreadspread use of the BMP accross scenarios, you can't have that as a standard display. Another one before I'm too long (if not already ). The ambush thing that was mentioned is good but is to be abstracted too. Otherwise some other tactics would have to be modelled too. One of my old time favorite is the rigging of a Screck on a tree facing down the probable path of US tanks. Trigerring is done either by a guy pulling at a long wire or by a tank tripping on it. How then would you model that? ------------------ Either he's dead or my watch has stopped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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