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CM2 other nationalities?

Red Devils
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Red Devils Senior Member

Red Devils

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Loki:

I doubt the Italians will be there.As for the rest its possible.Its gonna be on the eastern front from what I have read.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Wouldn't it be lovely to see tanketts racing across the steppe!

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I'm sorry, we haven't the

facilities to take all of you prisoner. Was there anything else?

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Fernando Senior Member

Fernando

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Loki:

Mussolini sent a full Italian Army (8th Army, three mountain and six infantry divisions)to the Eastern Front. It was destroyed during the Russian 42-43' counteroffensive. If CM2 includes Hungarians, Finns and Rumanians then It can't miss the Italians off.

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The Commissar Senior Member

The Commissar

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I don't think the Italiens did much on the Eastern front except get captured and sent to turn into frozen popsicles in Siberian POW camps.

Poles on the other hand and Fins are a good possibility.

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...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

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AndrewRoberts Junior Member

AndrewRoberts

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Originally posted by ncounio:

IIRC there were a few poles divisions within the red army ?

Can someone confirm this ?

smile.gifYes, ncounio, Poles did fight for the Soviets. Two units where formed from POWs the Soviets had not murdered. The Polish II Corps was sent to the West and the Polish 1st Army served in the East under Marshal Rokossovsky. My source is The History of WWII Vol 16 by Eddy Bauer (Orbis 1984). I have just Got CM and it is wonderful.

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Qualis artifex pereo!

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vimes Junior Member

vimes

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Tovarish Commissar did you know that the Italians had really good tobacco very much liked by the Red Army soldiers. wink.gif

I suspect that the reason that the Italians were so unsuccessful was because they would trade their firearms, it’s probably hard to fight with out weapons smile.gif

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DrD Senior Member

DrD

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Based on CM1, I'm sure they'll include alot of nationalities. As in CM1 they'll be only one nationality on one side (Russian- I doubt they'll model the various ethnicities as they were all part of the Soviet Army) but I bet the other side will get 5-8 i.e. German, Romanian, Bulgarian, Italian, Finn, and Hungarian. This will also be necessary to create some historical scenarios.

BTW, when I played CC3 online (twice altogether) I noticed noone wanted to be Russian. Do y'all think this will happen in CM2?

I can't wait to see how they model C+C for the Russians. We've had several interesting debates on this about 3 months ago.

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Red Devils Senior Member

Red Devils

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I believe that the Hungarians had a "fast corps" on this front. Something akin to a motor-rifle division? Would be interesting to see that as well as Hungarian, Italian n Romanian armour included. Too bad about the Poles. Maybe they will be included in CM4, the early years. BTW, I beleive that there was a Spanish volunteer corps involved in the siege of Lenningrad, but they were uniformed and equipted as germans so far as I have read. Cheers.

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I'm sorry, we haven't the

facilities to take all of you prisoner. Was there anything else?

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Guest Germanboy

Guest Germanboy

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red Devils:

BTW, I beleive that there was a Spanish volunteer corps involved in the siege of Lenningrad, but they were uniformed and equipted as germans so far as I have read. Cheers

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Spanish sent 5,000 volunteers (I am not sure whether that is an absolute number or whether they rotated them) as a token 'ta' from Franco for Legion Condor and to stave off demands by the Germans to open Spain for marching German troops to Gibraltar. They were known as the 'Blue Legion', IIRC. Don't know whether they made it until the end.

The father of a friend of mine was in Southern France when they abolished the Vichy state, and claims he and his unit actually entered Spain, but had to leave b/c Franco had a change of mind after a couple of hourse and threatened to declare war on Germany. Don't know if that is true though.

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Andreas

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The Commissar Senior Member

The Commissar

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DrD,

Well, I for one will be definately fighting for my country-men smile.gif

Give me a couple of T-34's and some mech-inf squads over a King Tiger any day of the week!

It's funny how many people see the Russians as an even worser people then the Germans and refuse to play as them in games...wonder if that whole Cold War thing had anything to do with the view?

BTW: Will there be ski troops? PLEASE let there be ski troops! There's something REALLY cool about riding circles around German squads who are sitting ducks while stuck in the heavy Russian snows!

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...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

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Los Senior Member

Los

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First off, (not that I give a rats ass anyway but) if the Hungarians or Rumanians are in CM2 then so should the Italians...there contribution was no more or less significant than the above mentioned others.

Second the Spanish had a full division in service (Blue Division) on the Eastern Front.

Third re: sub divisions within nationalities I suspect those subdivsions, if any, would merely be based on differences in OB. Though there's been no final decision as to what's in or out.

Los

Los

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BasilD Member

BasilD

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Humm been long time since I played 'Drive on Stalingrad', but as I remeber there were a number of hungarian, bulgarian, and italian divisions, and the hungarians and bulgarians were actually multi-divisional armie groups. Some of them were pretty useful too, mountain troops and the like.

There was even a sole czech armoured division that I always had a soft spot for, if it was destroyed I was sorely demoralized wink.gif

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As the victors define history, so does the majority define sanity...

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Fernando Senior Member

Fernando

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

The Spanish sent 5,000 volunteers (I am not sure whether that is an absolute number or whether they rotated them) as a token 'ta' from Franco for Legion Condor and to stave off demands by the Germans to open Spain for marching German troops to Gibraltar. They were known as the 'Blue Legion', IIRC. Don't know whether they made it until the end.

The father of a friend of mine was in Southern France when they abolished the Vichy state, and claims he and his unit actually entered Spain, but had to leave b/c Franco had a change of mind after a couple of hourse and threatened to declare war on Germany. Don't know if that is true though.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, they were a couple more than 5.000. About 45.00 in fact. They fought grouped in a Volunteer Infantry Division (250. Spanische Freiwilligen Infanterie Division; sorry for my German but it's worse than my English), commanded by general Agustín Muñoz Grandes first and general Esteban Infantes later. Spain was a neutral country so it wasn't a Spanish regular army division but a group of volunteers who freely wanted to fight against comunism. Actually all of the divisional officers and NCOs came from the Spanish regular army and most of them were experienced soldiers. Most of the soldiers were falangist (La Falange was the Spanish fascist part) eager to fight their ideological enemies. The Spanish army rotated them to allow the maximun number of men to gain experience on the modern war fought by the Germans and sent lots of reinforcement battalions for covering losses. Hitler, a notorius racist, praised the division and said Spaniards were the only virile Latin race. Well, If we could conquer a continent populated by millions with only a handful of men then to fight against some ten of thousands Russians wasn't too difficult :)

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Fernando Senior Member

Fernando

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BasilD:

Humm been long time since I played 'Drive on Stalingrad', but as I remeber there were a number of hungarian, bulgarian, and italian divisions, and the hungarians and bulgarians were actually multi-divisional armie groups. Some of them were pretty useful too, mountain troops and the like.

There was even a sole czech armoured division that I always had a soft spot for, if it was destroyed I was sorely demoralized wink.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There were no Bulgarian divisions in Russia. Bulgaria didn't declare war on Russia

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Guest Germanboy

Guest Germanboy

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Fernando, thanks for clearing that up. Is it possible that 5,000 was the number of casualties? It is years that I read something about them, and it is well possible that I mixed them up with some other foreign unit (Nordland or Wallonie, maybe).

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Andreas

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Fernando Senior Member

Fernando

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

Fernando, thanks for clearing that up. Is it possible that 5,000 was the number of casualties? It is years that I read something about them, and it is well possible that I mixed them up with some other foreign unit (Nordland or Wallonie, maybe).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was more than 5,000 casualties. IIRC they were about 12,000. During the Krasni Bor battle alone (Feb. 1943) the Blue Division suffered more than 3.500 casualties. BTW I wrote in my previous message that 45.00 Spaniards fought in Russia but I wanted to write 45,000!. The division was repatriated in Oct, 1943 but a volunteer legion remained till March, 1944. Nevertheless some men enlisted in the Waffen SS and fought in Berlin. The Spanish Air Force sent four fighter squadrons (though no more than one was present at a given momen), They were equiped by the Germans with Bf109 first and FW190 later.

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Guest Rommel22

Guest Rommel22

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I'll play for the Russians. Although I never played for the Brits or Amis.

Russians are different. I just love those t-34's.

The 6th German army was almost all czech's. It was raised in Bohemia. The italians are also historicly important.

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Russian tactics as said by von Mellenthin "Bridge heads everywhere"

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Admiral Junior Member

Admiral

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I guess it is an absurd lot to ask of BTS but I'd also love to see the Blue Division in CM2. If I remember correctly the German officers responsible for taking them to Russia detrained them something like 300 miles away from the front and forced them to march there on foot. Also, I think they were the best-liked of the occupying forces because they treated civilians well. At least, that's what I read in the old Time-Life WWII series about them. But Fernando knows more than I do.

There was a cool user-made scenario in TOAW about the Spanish stand at Krasni Bor. If any of you play that game anymore, I think it's available on The Wargamer.

Viva Espana! (don't know how to make tildes)

Cheers,

Nelson (Hernandez)

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