Code of Conduct needed ? Poll

[Guest tero]

I have seen and I have taken part in debates that turn into flames from go.

That is why I think there is a need of Code of Conduct or Rules of Engagement that ensure that the debates keep to the point and as gentlemanlike as possible.

I do not go blind upon seeing four letter words. But I get annoyed when topics deteriorate to name calling and unchecked, unwarranted personal attacks.

That is why I propose a list of Do's and Dont's be posted to give guidelines to the demeanor of the members frequenting this board.

[Andre76]

Common courtisy and common sense should be enough in my opinion. Besides, what should happen to the people who broke these "rules"? Banned? I think BTS has more important things to do. And It's easy to misunderstand each other when writing fast and perhaps english isn't your native language (as with me).

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André

[Philistine]

Actually, there already is a code of conduct which I think covers everything you ask for. Everyone agrees to it when they register. Just hit the "Register" link, or:

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/Ultimate.cgi?action=agree

Some excerpts:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Registration for this bulletin board is completely free! If you agree to abide by our rules below, you should press the "Agree" button, which will enable you to register. If you do not agree, press the "Cancel" button.

[snip]

The major rules are as follows:

1. No Flaming and/or Baiting. If you have a strong opinion, that is fine. But express it in such a way that is non-abusive and not emotionally charged. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We like to think our gamers are mature, rational people. Please help us keep this opinion of you!

2. No foul language. Standard decency request here. If people ignore this we do have the technology to block any word we want from being posted. Try and keep us from flipping the "censor" switch, will ya? We don't really want to use it.

3. Be constructive. We do not want these boards to be a waste of people's time. Therefore we ask that content be in some way related to our games.

[snip]

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you, Battlefront.com, or its agents.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course, agreeing to it is one thing. Actually following it....

--Philistine

[Andy A]

Nice idea but, in this imperfect world I think padlocking threads which have degenerated into flaming duels, works as well as any system

[Ghost Dog]

"Of course, agreeing to it is one thing. Actually following it....

--Philistine"

And that´s coming from a lawyer.

Ted

[Guest tero]

>Of course, agreeing to it is one thing.

Anybody read it through before hitting OK ?

Everybody UNDERSTAND it ?

More importantly: why have it there if is not enforced in any shape or form ?

Is it just there to deflect possible law suits ?

>Actually following it....

Ay, there's the rub.

Is this board intended only for those who are quick enough and nasty enough to discourage others from taking part in the conversation ?

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tero:

Is this board intended only for those who are quick enough and nasty enough to discourage others from taking part in the conversation ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tero, are you absolutely sure we are talking about this board here? Where is this happening? I am not having that impression, except for special cases (e.g. Skorzeny).

What you talk about happens IMO when someone comes here spouting his mouth off on a topic where he has no clue in most cases. Most threads are very civilised (except for all those with hamsters or Mormon wives) and when they go off track, or descend into flamewars Steve closes them. Do you want this to become a heavily policed forum where you have to mull over every word before posting it? Often offenses are committed inadvertently or because somebody has a bad day. Do you want these people banned immediately? The forum would become a lonely place quickly. And who should do it anyway? I think it is fine as it is. When newcomers have an attitude they soon find out that this is the wrong place for it, when oldtimers get overbearing there is somebody to call them to account, and this self-policing works quite well. I do not want the Cyberpolice to come in here and patrol this place, handing out bans because someone is taking something the wrong way or because a discussion gets a bit heated (note, this does not endorse calling others names, genuine disagreement should be no problem however).

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Andreas

[Vanir]

This is actually one of the more civil boards I've been around. Trying to 100% eliminate arguements/flames is futile anyways. Things seem to be working fairly well as they are; we don't need BTS to babysit us.

[Fionn]

Posting a list of Do's and Don'ts to a forum like this would be like waving a red rag to a bull.

As a side issue. Is it amusing to anyone else the extent to which individuals seem to imagine weightless polls can effect change? A poll is irrelevant. It has no force of law behind it. Why ask for a poll when it can do no good?

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn:

As a side issue. Is it amusing to anyone else the extent to which individuals seem to imagine weightless polls can effect change? A poll is irrelevant. It has no force of law behind it. Why ask for a poll when it can do no good?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Must be b/c it is election season in the US again. I find it much more strange that so many people think this forum is a vicious place in which oldtimers constantly assault newcomers. Maybe they have put something in the water supply at our university, but I really don't think it is fitting that description.

Oh, and after just checking on the 'Archer' thread, I find it quite ironic that this is coming from tero (cough cough). I am quite sure that telling someone he 'acts like a moron' and stating that he sounds like 'a man who has not gotten laid for an eon and is taking it out on other people' is not exactly my idea of a civilised discussion. YMMV, of course.

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Andreas

[This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 08-17-2000).]

[aka_tom_w]

Things are just fine here the way they are.

As mentioned everyone who registered agreed to a policy and code of conduct when they registered.

And when things go down hill here the "Forest usually echo's back" and the board has a history of sort of stabilizing its self, it has in my experience been a VERY self regulated community and it runs very smoothly most of the time.

There may be a few VERY opinionated people here, but other than the discussion of actual historical FACTS (IF there are infact historical facts?) most of what is posted here is personal opinion and it can and does get posted here in a myriad of tones, volumes, attitudes and styles and voices. This diversity keeps this place interesting and in no way should it be censored or regulated by MORE rules than are already in effect as a result of your registration agreement.

Now, lets get back to Playing CM!

-tom w

[Chupacabra]

Okay, I'm going to look at this from my perspective, since it's the only one I've got.

I'm a relative newcomer to this board. I've been here...hrm, maybe three weeks? Something like that. I've been reading it for a bit longer, but either way, I'm no old-timer.

I also consider myself to be an extremely opinionated person. Academia tends to do that to a person, unfortunately. If I think someone is dead wrong (especially Gerbiltoy) I have no problem saying so. If I think someone is leaping to conclusions, I'll say so. If I think someone is being a full-on reprobate, I'll say so. And yet I've managed to be here for close to a month without ever getting into a flame war (Joe Squawk doesn't count).

Here's what I see an awful lot.

Person1-Does CM model the TGIF-9 Hausfrau? If so, BTS, put this in a patch.

Person2-No. This topic has been covered, do a search.

Person1-You son of a bitch, don't condescend to me! If you don't like it, don't answer! Who made you king of the board?! I am no fool!

Way too many people take short or curt answers to be rude or otherwise offensive. Way too many people need to chill the hell out. Whatever attitude you bring is reflected right back atcha. I've seen veeeeery few examples of unjustified flames here. And I've seen absolutely no examples of longtimers flaming newcomers just for being new.

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[maxm2]

As has been pointed out, locks on really stupid/insulting threads have worked well to avoid deterioration into nuclear war, and, as someone asked, what can you do to people besides kick them out or lock down the thread?

After much thought, I have a modest proposal. By raising the price of each copy of CM sold by only a few dollars and placing it in a special fund, BTS could accumulate a sizable special bank account. I'm sure we have enough brain power and technical expertise on this forum to track down the actual location of any offender.

Combining location awareness of offenders with the special BTS account for hiring special professional assistance, I think we would have our solution to incivility. Specifically:

(Now, I can't claim my idea is original: it's actually two ideas, one from the life insurance biz and one from the fun-loving guys in the Taliban)

Suppose we have a chart: one insult to intelligence equals one finger on the left hand (offender's choice), one insult to race or gender preference equals the offender's left or right hand depending on severity of insult; one insult to personal hygiene would entail a flesh wound to any extremity (offendee's choice).

For criticising CM without extreme provocation (it crashes your computer and wipes out your hard drive, say) or less than ten pages of documentation okay'ed by Fionn, it goes without saying that the consequence would be death. With one appeal to George "No one who's been exectuted has ever complained" Bush allowed.

Is that good, or what?

[Guest Germanboy]

Hey maxm2 - you could set up business with von Shrad and the van. Rent-a-thug™... I have a nominee for the first job, no prizes for guessing.

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Andreas

[maxm2]

Uh, I don't want to sound stupid (any more than I naturally do) but who is von Schrad? Is he like Erik von Danikan (sp?) or Arnold?

Also, how do you get that little "tm" superscript in your message?

And lastly, they're "Physiological Rearrangement Specialists," not thugs!

P.S. CM does model the TGIF-9 Hausfrau. It appears in the "Domestic Campaign" mode.

[This message has been edited by maxm2 (edited 08-17-2000).]

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by maxm2:

Uh, I don't want to sound stupid (any more than I naturally do) but who is von Schrad? Is he like Erik von Danikan (sp?) or Arnold?

Also, how do you get that little "tm" superscript in your message?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try a search on 'von Shrad' and 'Van'™. He is the one who suggested that the Fanatical Batallions of Fact ™ should pay visits to annoying Slackass Posterboys™ in the van, to have a, err, cup of tea, maybe.

I am on a Mac, and I get the ™ by pressing alt-2 (UK keyboard).

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Andreas

[Fionn]

maxm2,

I don't need to OK anyone's critiques.. I'd just love to see them do some research BEFORE posting the damned critique. *sigh*

[maxm2]

Gee, Fionn, I just thought that if someone risked execution there ought to be a higher standard.....! : )

And if you think research on this forum is bad, you ought to check out some of the student papers at our institutions of higher learning! : (

[Joe Shaw]

I'd like to make a distinction here as well. While most of the posts are specifically game or history related, there are a few that are ... not related to much of anything. The "PENG Challenge" and "Hamster" threads are a good example. In those threads, a number of us are just having fun with gratuitous taunts and various silly stuff. Hopefully everyone recognizes those posts for what they are and understands that my calling Goat Sucker (a.k.a. Chupacabra) a flaming idiot with the intellegence of a sponge is simply part of the fun ... it's also true but that's another story.

Unfortunately even those posts can get out of hand. I was called to task, rightly so, for straying over the edge recently. The point (always assuming that I have one other than the one that occupies the top of my head) is that I WAS called to task and I apologized. From what I've seen, this board is usually quite civil and informative and even, at times, funny. I think that the current system works quite well. As Andreas would say however, YMMV.

Joe

[Fionn]

LOL Max . Nah, no-one risks execution for criticising anything ( hell, I've just spoken up on another forum for someone who prefers CCIV to CM . ).

OTOH ANYONE who speaks without researching or without at least some logical background to their point, well, they deserve their 9mm headache .

And Maxm2, man, my dad is a college lecturer so I get to see some of the transcripts he gets to correct. *sigh*... These people are getting degrees? Man, I'd have thought frontal lobotomies would have been more fitting.

Ps. Tero,

Don't listen to Joe. He LOVES hamsters... and I don't mean in a platonic way.. Generally we simply use him as a cautionary tale for newbies along the lines of the "bogeyman"... "Watch what you post or you'll end up like Joe Shaw" we say to the terrified screams of newbies who promise to be good... Anything to avoid that sad fate.

[Joe Shaw]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Don't listen to Joe.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thank you for noticing ... it's all I've ever really asked

Tread lightly Fionn, I have many more MORMON WIFE photos! Bwahahahahah!

Joe

[Dragoon44]

Folks, Im thinking that by and large were all pretty good people here. Sure in every crowd there are some dilrods and punks. If those folks upset you, ignore them or dont PBEM with them anymore. Sounds simple but Im hoping that BTS cranks out the next iteration of CM asap, we can self police ourselves dont you think?

[David Aitken]

After checking the 'Archer' thread, I've confirmed that this thread was started in my honour. It should be noted that tero is a rampant paranoiac, and is the very person who should be adopting the code of conduct he proposes.

tero, I have never 'singled you out for special treatment'. However, after the 'unwarranted personal attacks' I have enjoyed from your quarter, I may well start to treat you differently.

Of course, this will only feed your conviction that I hold you in contempt, but I get the feeling there isn't much I could do to change your mind anyway, so I won't bother trying. Just trust me when I say that you have me wrong, and you also have this board wrong. It's people with your attitude who provoke the kind of behaviour that you're complaining about. I suggest you chill out, take a break, and come back here without the paranoia.

David

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There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT

[This message has been edited by David Aitken (edited 08-17-2000).]

[Fionn]

David,

I've enjoyed many of your posts for their "pouring of cold water on ignoramii" effects ( and no tero, don't go feeling persecuted ... I never mentioned you as an ignoramus)... HOWEVER BTS frowns on the "taking a flamefest into a new thread after the old one is closed down" thing you've just done.

My advice is simple... Simply refuse to respond to anything tero ever posts again. That way you avoid future fights. There's about a half-dozen people here who are on my "don't respond" list and it has saved me no end of trouble in recent months to simply ignore them.

Good thing is that they usually have little useful to contribute so you don't miss out much by simply skimming over their posts. I suggest you take the same policy and don't spread the flames to a new thread.

As people sometimes say to me when someone gets me riled up... "It's obvious who started what in the closed thread." Just let the thread speak for itself. I'm not all that good at taking this advice at the time but it is good advice ( If you take it I suggest you do a little re-edit of your previous post . It's a tad bit inciteful ).

[David Aitken]

Fionn wrote:

> BTS frowns on the "taking a flamefest into a new thread after the old one is closed down" thing you've just done.

That wasn't my intention at all - I posted here first, while the 'Archer' thread was on page 2. Then it came back to the top, so I decided to refute some of tero's accusations - something I'd refrained from doing previously.

Considering this thread appears to have a lot to do with me, I feel justified in posting. I just wanted to put tero's request in perspective, since there was some confusion about the behaviour he was referring to. I stand by what I've said... I think I'll edit "never" to be in lowercase, but I'm afraid that's as far as I'll go.

David

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There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT