Juardis Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 1. A stationary FO in the open can be spotted from 1000m away. Don't know how or why, but that seems ridiculous to me. He's dead now. Never had a chance. Why can't you spot from a hidden position? I tried to keep him hidden while spotting, but alas, that seems too much to ask as he can only do one or the other. Why dammit!?!? Arrrggghhhhhh!!!! 2. An AT gun can rotate quickly and never ever misses (ok, it does once in a while but it's accuracy is so much better than a tank). My opponent took out 3 of my armored vehicles and just about a 4th with his AT gun. 3 of my 4 brought weapons to bear on him and missed repeatedly. Talk about pissed! :\ 3. AT mines cannot be discovered by infantry as they walk over them. Consequently, I lost two tanks driving down a road with AT mines in it even though my infantry had led the way. grrrrrr!!! I play and I learn. Soon I will be lethal ------------------ Jeff Abbott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 The only thing I've learned: Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't, for those times in between, tactics count. ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted October 17, 2000 Author Share Posted October 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: The only thing I've learned: Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't, for those times in between, tactics count. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> True. But in order to use good tactics, one must first know the capabilities of ones opponents and his equipment and the limitations of yours. From "Juardis' Art of War" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis: True. But in order to use good tactics, one must first know the capabilities of ones opponents and his equipment and the limitations of yours. From "Juardis' Art of War" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Also true but if you think your post is anything but a string of unlucky circumstances, your play will be flawed and overly cautious. Nasty luck, mate, but not regular combat occurences. ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted October 17, 2000 Author Share Posted October 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: Also true but if you think your post is anything but a string of unlucky circumstances, your play will be flawed and overly cautious. Nasty luck, mate, but not regular combat occurences. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Wait a sec there Elijah. I can see where the AT gun could be luck. Matter of fact, it probably is, but all guns I've encountered ARE fast and accurate. Even so... how can spotting a stationary FO at 1000m be lucky/unlucky? You either can or cannot. And two separate infantry squads walking over the same AT mine fields in a road. Were they unlucky or is it not possible for an infantry squad to spot AT mines? IIRC, Engineers can if they stop near one, but I did not know about infantry until the incident I relayed above. Don't get me wrong, I really want to know if it was luck or not. I tend to think otherwise. Anybody else? ------------------ Jeff Abbott [This message has been edited by Juardis (edited 10-16-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 Infantry cannot spot AT mines. For that matter, neither can Engineers. The only thing that allows you to spot AT mines is having one of your AFVs drive over it. Ouch! Then the Engineers (if you have them) can disarm the mines. I've not had FOs spotted that easily, but if they're in open ground, why should that be surprising? Your opponent also has field glasses, and a guy looking back with lots of antenna from his radio would be cannon fodder. The AT gun, now that was probably luck. But remember that the AT gun is more difficult to spot and presents a lower profile than a tank. I find they are often hard to kill. ------------------ "Don't lie to me, Gustav! You're a stinkin' Mac user!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis: 1. A stationary FO in the open can be spotted from 1000m away. Don't know how or why, but that seems ridiculous to me. He's dead now. Never had a chance. Why can't you spot from a hidden position? I tried to keep him hidden while spotting, but alas, that seems too much to ask as he can only do one or the other. Why dammit!?!? Arrrggghhhhhh!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What killed him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted October 17, 2000 Author Share Posted October 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phoenix: What killed him? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Anyone of 10 tanks that drew a bead on him. My point being, why can't you hide and spot at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 Juardis said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>1. A stationary FO in the open can be spotted from 1000m away. Don't know how or why, but that seems ridiculous to me. He's dead now. Never had a chance. Why can't you spot from a hidden position?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Probably because the game's convention is that the Hide command is pretty much a forfeiture of all offensive action in the interests of being invisible. So keep your FOs in cover. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>2. An AT gun can rotate quickly and never ever misses (ok, it does once in a while but it's accuracy is so much better than a tank). My opponent took out 3 of my armored vehicles and just about a 4th with his AT gun. 3 of my 4 brought weapons to bear on him and missed repeatedly. Talk about pissed!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> SOME AT guns rotate quickly but most seem as slow as 15cm sIGs--they do often have a wicked high rate of fire, though. Also, most ATGs often miss their first shot or 2. It's just that if you have full FOW on, you often don't see the shots that miss, except for a mortar-like explosion somewhere in the far distance, so it looks like the 1st one gets you. You can tell if the 1st shot gets you because your tank dies for no apparent reason. But by the time of the 2nd or 3rd shot, you've built up a good enough spotting chance that you usually see the gun as it kills you. ATGs are also hard targets for tanks. Most tanks' HE rounds are pretty puny things requiring nearly direct hits to do any good. And this is difficult because ATGs are usually low, small targets and are almost always dug in besides. Plus, tank guns are usually fairly high velocity, meaning they have flat trajectories, which in turn means that a slight slope to the ground greatly exaggerates the miss distance of overs and shorts. This further decreases the likelihood of getting an impact inside the lethal radius. All this is why tanks often hose ATGs with MGs if possible--that's more likely to produce results quicker, either taking out the gun or making the crew duck long enough for the tank to get in a better position. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>3. AT mines cannot be discovered by infantry as they walk over them. Consequently, I lost two tanks driving down a road with AT mines in it even though my infantry had led the way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There are 2 types of AT mines: the buried kind and the daisychain kind. The buried kind is invisible until it kills something, but cannot be placed on paved roads. The daisychain kind, however, is on top of the ground thus visible to anything with an LOS that is also not moving too fast. This is the only type of AT mine that can be placed on a paved road. So if you were on a paved road, then you just had bad luck or were moving too fast. OTOH, if you were on a dirt road, there's no way to see the mines beforehand. ------------------ -Bullethead In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bullethead: There are 2 types of AT mines: the buried kind and the daisychain kind. The buried kind is invisible until it kills something, but cannot be placed on paved roads.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I was thinking about this a while ago, and this brought it back to mind. The daisychain mine "unit" is pretty small, just big enough to cover the width of a road. But IIRC hidden AT mines have a bigger area (20x20m?) just like AP mines. I haven't remembered to try this, but does the placement code check to see if the area of effect of the mines is on a paved road, or just if the "signpost" is? If the former, you could place an AT mine "unit" next to a paved road and get coverage of the road. Has anyone tried this? ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted October 17, 2000 Author Share Posted October 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bullethead: So if you were on a paved road, then you just had bad luck or were moving too fast. OTOH, if you were on a dirt road, there's no way to see the mines beforehand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Right. It was a dirt road. That is hard lesson number 3 that I recently learned. Hopefully this will help others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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