Horrible luck strikes again! (and again and again and again and...)

[Juardis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Commissar:

This post is in part a place to release my anger at this incident, and part to ask if anything like this was ever experienced by anyone else... what follows is a story of endless fields of burning Allied tanks who never stood a chance for no apparent reason.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehehehe, man, I know too well of which you speak. My armor skills suck. I'm almost to the point where I won't buy armor because all they do is die. Doesn't matter whether they be German, American, or Brits. They die...fast and catastrophically. Good to know I'm not the only one to experience bad luck (I attribute it to luck )

------------------

Jeff Abbott

[Supertanker]

I wanted to comment on the infantry tactics. First, if your men aren't in a building, systematic destruction of the same won't bother you. There have been numerous threads about keeping your infantry out of the buildings, so do it. Second, that line of rubble he will create will provide you with good infantry positions. Let him nail a few, then smoke the area (as others advised, always have an 81mm observer for smoke purposes) and run your men into the rubble. The will be far harder to dislodge than if they inhabited the intact buildings.

I recommend you try switching to British troops as well. 17lb guns, Crack PIATs (quiet & deadly from ambush), Churchills, Wasps - he will be in for a world of hurt.

I also think you should never play him again. I would mock the crap out of any friend of mine that won't play unless they are Germans on a billiard table. Blatant attempts to slant the game in his favor are cowardly at best. At least make him attack so you can set ambushes, especially if he doesn't take adequate infantry support. I've know a couple of people that insisted on such games in Squad Leader - they cheated at cards, too.

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"Late evening turned to early morning as you sat with fists tightly gripped and thumb poised, anxiously awaiting the next cartridge of goodness. The hardcore gamer was born from nights such as these. Show your 'Roots.'" - The description of the Atari 2600 shirt on game-skins.com

[Subvet]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software:

Fair is fair! If he picks the conditions for the first game, you get to pick them for the second game. If he doesn't agree... never, ever, in a thousand years play him again. At least that is my philosophy I do not want to spend my time stroking someone else's fragile gamer ego. A real life commander "plays" with what he gets, when he gets it, and where. A player that wishes to purposefully avoid such challenges really isn't worthy of much respect. Like a guy saying he can beat Rubix Cube every time, only to find out that he twisted the sides at 45 degree angles and applied a screwdriver (bring back memories anybody? ).

Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said, I totally agree with that. It's like playing a guy in a game that involves dice rolls who insist on bringing his specially weighted dice (I ran into a guy that did this). As far as the Rubix Cube thing - hey, I was just taking it apart to lube it up with vaseline. Honest!

[The Commissar]

Well, heres an update on my current situation, and I sure as hell am pleased with it!

At about 9pm yesterday my opponent and I decided upon another armor engagemtn over TCP/IP. 3000 points. My setup.

While frequently minimizing the setup screen to take a quick peek at some of the advice in this post, I made my selection.

Since my opponent did not like the idea of attacking and prefered a ME, I discarded some of the suggestions for deep mud and lots of guns. I've done this a lot in other games against other opponents, and it works beautifully, but this opponent obviously experienced something of the sort and wasn't too eager to go through the meat grinder again.

So I settled upon the noble Duke's adivce for my core force. I've never tried M-18 Hellcat's, although I meant to one of these day, so today was a perfect occasion. As per suggestion, I took 13 of them (lucky number, eh?), with 4 vets and the rest as Regs. I accompanied this with 2 Veteran Super Pershings, 4 regular daimlers, a single Reg M-10 (had some points to blow) and a platoon of regular Rifle inf with 3 snipers, 2 81mm spotters, and a bazooka team.

For the terrain I decided upon an overcast evening attack, and visibility was pleasently reduced to slightly over a 800 meters at best. I took medium tree coverage and modest hills. The main battle field would be some god-forsaken town sorrounded by lots of hills, lots of woods, and lots of flying lead.

So here comes the setup. Again, as per advice, I settled for seperating my battle force into 2 evenly divided groups. Studying the battlefield, I decided that the best vantage point for tank fighting would be 2 large hills, and I assigned a tank force to each.

One of the hills was just south of the town, overlooking the collection of buildings and thus giving my tanks a solid LOS to any enemy entering the town.

The second hill was to the East of the town, and overlooked most of my right flank and some of the town as well. My 4 daimlers I sent out far away from my forces, one to my right flank advancing behind a ridge line as a scout, another a few hundred meters to the west of him, a third all the way on my left flank, and the foruth several hundred meters East of the 3rd.

The battle begins...30 turns of destruction follow.

On the second turn, the tank group on my right flank encounters what appears to be 5 erman heavies overlooking my line of advance. An m-18 explodes into flames from what appears to be a Tiger hit. Several more are in the line of fire. I regroup my forces and attempt to have as much as possible firing in unison. Shots bounce off of the Germans like tennis balls off a wall.

I send one of my flanking Daimlers flying over a small hillock and square into the side of one of the German tanks, which is revealed to be only a veteran Hetzer. In 5 seconds, it becomes a dead Hetzer. My M-18's are getting toasted. I back off a few and advance with 3 of the M-18's flying in different directions firing on the go, while my Super Pershing sneaks around a lone church closer to the German tanks. M-18's fire and cause no damage. Germans fire and miss the high speed M-18's. The Daimler which killed the Hetzer is ordered to go into the rear of the group of tanks, distracting them, just as my Persh lumbers out from behind the Church. The Germans are indeed distracted, and all 4 of the remaining tanks turn around. My Super Persh fires off two shots into to back of a JagdTiger with no effect. The Tiger and JagtPanthers turn around and toast up my Persh. The Daimler is killed and an M-18 which stops in the middle of a field for no good reason is also toasted. A single M-18 is left flanking around the Heavies.

Meanwhile, a similar disaster is going down in the town, only this time, for the Germans! German tanks along with 2 KT's appear out from behing every building. Infantry are engaged in a fire fight with my platoon. My snipers are popping heads left and right. I order both of my Arty spotters to target the German inf. not 100 meters away.

Meanwhile, my tanks rush over the hill and out of a valley which was hidden from the sigh of the Germans, effectively flanking them. 3 m-18's and a Super Pershing gang up on a trapped KT and brew it up. Hetzers, JagtPanthers and PZ4's go up in flames everywhere. A KT manages to sneak around from my flank and is about to wreck havoc on my armor. A sniper which I positioned in a building snipes off the TC just as the tank lumbers into range of my M-18, exposing its soft side armor. The shocked KT goes to kitty heaven.

My mortars are meanwhile suppressing his infantry. On my right flank, the flanking M-18 circles around the 3 Jagt-thingies and destroys a JagdPanther before stopping in front of a JagtTiger (what the heck is with this uncalled for stopping?!) and becoming yet another burning wreck.

My men and several tanks with HE rounds push the German inf out of the town and capture the VL's. Meanwhile, his 2 remaining tanks, a JT and a JP are topping a hill with a platoon of Inf, defending by a bazooka, one of my surviving Daimlers, an M-18 and a M-10.

My Pershing succumbs to a lucky Panzershreck hit and immobilizes behind a building. Thankfully, at least it is in sight of all his infantry and quickly forces them into panic and rout.

As his two heavies round the top, I order my 2 tanks and a Daimler to go to different sides, hoping to confuse the enemy and expose his side armor to me. A Daimler is unfortunately quickly picked off by a JagdTiger and fails to make the beast expose its side to my M-10, which advances into certain dath. My M-18, circling around the two tanks like a bat (or is it cat?) out of hell, pops off a 2 shots at the JagtPanther and on the third, knocks it out. It speeds past a wrecked M-18 from a previous battle, but manages to lumber on into it, slowing it down while it tries to free itself. What results is a few seconds lost time, although his JT still has not made a complete turn. My M-18 speeds past, fires off a shot, misses, and is about to pop the JT into its slowly turning side when a well-aimed grenade from one of my enemie's squads lands into its open turret, knocking it out. That German should play for a Basketball team, heaving a grenade into a meter-wide opening on a vehicle going 55 mph

Anyway, by this time its the 28th turn, the enemy tries to rush my inf to capture some VL's, but is cut short by stubborn defense and lack of time. What results is a tie.

Man, t'was some battle and I learned quite a bit. The first, being that M-18's roaring past at top speed are the cat to be feared. Second, scout better next time so as not to fall into a stupid bush wack like I did on my right flank with my tank group. Third, don't use your damn Super Persh to help out your Infantry, dumbass! Fourth, a well placed sniper can ruin a tankers day.

Finally, what seems to be a glitch report: I figured out why my M-18's were stopping in the middle of the open. Y'see, I extended the line of movement on accompaing turns to adjust it to circumstences. Seemingly, all tanks (and infantry too) stop at an extended waypoint now, even if they were not close to reaching it before and I included no pause order. I don't know about anyone else here, but I think this needs to be fixed. If the tank/platoon/whatever did not yet complete its original movement orders, it should continue moving when I add new ones to the original. After all, with radios in tanks and Platoon commanders recieving new orders on the go, the unit should keep moving Maybe I'm wrong, or maybe this is a glitch, but whatever it is it's a bit annoying. Correct me if Im wrong here.

Well, thanks for all the sollid advice - I couldn't of done it without all of you!

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"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[PeterNZer]

Great game!

as for tanks stopping, try it in a quick battle.

Place orders one turn. The more the next turn. When the first turns orders finish the tank will pause before taking hte second turns orders. On long reces, always finish your orders (if you don't just loop them around the map!) behind cover!

A great trick i LOVE to use is hunt forward, then reverse. If you want to be more conservative, move forward then reverse back into cover.

Imagine a line of three or 4 m18s doing that. Tanks would be retargeting all over the place, especially if they were spread across the map. It's also a good way to finish your scouting.

Glad the battle went wel for you.

And don't forget those big arty guns. Sounds like he's using a lot of turretless stuff. Pick up some 150mm and watch his tanks imobilize. Those heavies are useless when they can only move their main gun 5 degrees left or right, haha

PeterNZ

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"I can be quite pleasant, you know" - Andreas

"WHERE'S THE MOAT?!" - Jon

[The Commissar]

Thanks for the advice, Peter! We have another game going up tonight (I'll be damned if I dont beat this guy up a few times!) and Ill be sure to learn from my mistakes.

Cheers!

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"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[Guest Big Time Software]

Wow... what a brewup

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Seemingly, all tanks (and infantry too) stop at an extended waypoint now, even if they were not close to reaching it before and I included no pause order.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is very much intended. Coordinating units to action, even vehicles with radios, was not easily done. If we didn't have C&C penalties for the end point of an initial string of orders a player would never have to suffer a C&C penalty ever. Just keep at least one order always active and use PAUSE to stay put for a turn. While the existing system isn't perfect, it is more realistic than not having delay penalties at all.

Steve

[The Commissar]

Thanks for the quick reply, Steve!

Here's a question: If I issue a movement order to a certain location, then select pause, and then issua another movement order, will the unit pause before moving (like before) or actually when it reaches the waypoint like intended?

This could be very useful in tank battles...

Cheers!

------------------

"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[Hiram Sedai]

I'm not giving any advice!!!

This is just me saying thanks for the AAR. I really enjoyed reading about all the action and love gleaning the good tips from the armor experts. Don't mind me. Nothing to see here folks.

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Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal

[Mr. Clark]

I'm 90% sure that a pause order always takes place at the start of a turn, no matter what else you attempt to have going on.

Sounds like a great battle!

I agree with calling in the big arty next time. You noted in this battle how the mortars suppressed his inf.

Next time try to disrupt more of his plans with more/bigger artillery.

Looking forward to the AAR for your next battle! Good Luck!!!

[Guest Big Time Software]

Mr. Clark wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'm 90% sure that a pause order always takes place at the start of a turn, no matter what else you attempt to have going on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct. And such a Pause will not diminish the C&C delay to start a second string of order after the final waypoint of the first string. The delay represents the time needed to coordinate new order into action. There is no way to avoid this penalty (on purpose). If you know your current movement path is not what you want, cancel the whole thing and start ver again.

If you don't like where your unit is at the beginning of the turn (i.e. not a good place to stop and think) you can try deleting/repositioning your existing waypoints to get your unit into a better spot before it sits and thinks about what to do next. Vehicles have very short C&C delays so this shouldn't be an issue that can't be worked around. Poor quality infantry units are another story

Steve

[ColumbusOHGamer]

If you really want to even the odds, pick fog. It's like having perm smoke. Makes Jerry get within killing distance. Also you could try night time. Maybe night time with smoke....hmmmmmmmmmmm..........and rain! WOW! I bet that's about a 100m LOS for both sides! hehehe

COG

[Iron Duke]

Test

[Iron Duke]

(Hmmm. I guess my post is too long...I cannot post it. I will have to break it up)

Congratulations Commissar, you have taken a great step forward to becoming a great Land Warfare Commander.

But, like all of us, "you have much to learn my young Padawa".

Lets analyze your AAR shall we?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>3000 points. My setup.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now your talkin!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I took 13 of them (lucky number, eh?), with 4 vets and the rest as Regs. I accompanied this with 2 Veteran Super Pershings, 4 regular daimlers, a single Reg M-10 (had some points to blow) and a platoon of regular Rifle inf with 3 snipers, 2 81mm spotters, and a bazooka team.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting, a formidable force indeed. Yet...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>For the terrain I decided upon an overcast evening attack, and visibility was pleasantly reduced to slightly over a 800 meters at best. I took medium tree coverage and modest hills. The main battle field would be some god-forsaken town surrounded by lots of hills, lots of woods, and lots of flying lead.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice. Too many trees for my taste, but that is just me. (Tankers...go fig... )

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>My M-18's are getting toasted. I back off a few and advance with 3 of the M-18's flying in different directions firing on the go, while my Super Pershing sneaks around a lone church closer to the German tanks. M-18's fire and cause no damage. Germans fire and miss the high speed M-18's. The Daimler which killed the Hetzer is ordered to go into the rear of the group of tanks, distracting them, just as my Persh lumbers out from behind the Church. The Germans are indeed distracted, and all 4 of the remaining tanks turn around. My Super Persh fires off two shots into to back of a JagdTiger with no effect. The Tiger and JagtPanthers turn around and toast up my Persh. The Daimler is killed and an M-18 which stops in the middle of a field for no good reason is also toasted. A single M-18 is left flanking around the Heavies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow...sounds like a tough fight here. More on this part later.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Meanwhile, my tanks rush over the hill and out of a valley which was hidden from the sigh of the Germans, effectively flanking them. 3 m-18's and a Super Pershing gang up on a trapped KT and brew it up. Hetzers, JagtPanthers and PZ4's go up in flames everywhere. A KT manages to sneak around from my flank and is about to wreck havoc on my armor. A sniper which I positioned in a building snipes off the TC just as the tank lumbers into range of my M-18, exposing its soft side armor. The shocked KT goes to kitty heaven<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah! Schweet!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>My M-18 speeds past, fires off a shot, misses, and is about to pop the JT into its slowly turning side when a well-aimed grenade from one of my enemies' squads lands into its open turret, knocking it out. That German should play for a Basketball team, heaving a grenade into a meter-wide opening on a vehicle going 55 mph<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's just wrong! LoL Freak'n Shak-attack!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Second, scout better next time so as not to fall into a stupid bush wack like I did on my right flank with my tank group.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This lesson is paramount! I have to keep teaching/learning this to myself EVERYTIME I play! It is hard to be patient, but absolutely vital. Knowing where the enemy is, is more important than almost anything else you can do for your battleplan. Look how much money, time, and effort modern-day Armies have spent on finding new ways to pinpoint the enemy. From JSTARS, ground seeking radar, thermal imaging, to satellites...if you can pinpoint your Foe, you can develop your battleplan to crush him with authority while suffering minimal losses.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Fourth, a well placed sniper can ruin a tankers day.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh hell yeah...plus, a well placed sniper can report enemy formations and locations.

(con't)

[Iron Duke]

(con't)

Ok, one thing I want to talk about is your purchase of the 2 Super Pershings and 4 Daimlers. Don't get me wrong, they did their part in your battle and allowed you to break even, but, you spent roughly 600 to 700 points on the Vet SP's and roughly another 300 on the Daimlers. Honestly, how would you rate the performance of your Vet SP's? By the sound of it, they didn't pull their weight. A lot of PBEMr's talk down the US 76mm gun in-favor to the 90mm, though the 76 admittedly has its shortcomings, the addition of a Tungsten round makes it a formidable weapon. I know the SupPer has T rounds also, but did he use them? Nope. Did your TD's use their T rounds? Yep. Imagine, if you will, instead of buying the 2 Pershings, you would have bought 4 more of Old Scratches personal rides? Could you have used an extra 2 cats? I think if you would have put a Hellcat in the same situation as that Pershing that bounced 2 rounds off the rear armor of those JagdTigers you would have seen at least 1 dead JT, I firmly believe that TD would have used his T rounds. The 90mm gun is just not strong enough for the big tanks. On to the Daimlers...while they did get some kills and definitely pulled their weight, the 40mm gun only has an appetite for small cats. With the same amount of points spent you could have had 2 possibly 3 reg Hellcats and used them in the same fashion, but the Hellcat has a slightly larger appetite It likes its felines to weigh over 50 tons...hehe. And with better speed than the Daimler, it is simply a better machine. So all in all a force of 18 to 19 Hellcats could have hit the field! Man, I salivate at that thought!

Ok, now for the fight. Once again, you did good! I'm not coming down on you one bit...I just want to help you BEAT this guy...send him back to Germany with his scrap iron in-hand! Remember, I am NO authority, its easy for me to sit back in my chair and play General...you are the one out there! For what its worth...here goes.

You did much better this time in fighting as a unit...well 2 units anyway. So how could you have fought better? With your second lesson learned in mind, scouting out and finding the enemy, it could have gone like this...

It sounds to me like you had two separate lanes, next to the 2 hills, in which you could have advanced...and you did so. One group running into a bad ambush, and the other out-flanking a kampfgruppe and destroying it. The thing about an Armor battle is that you have to forget the VL's. The true VL's in an Armor battle is your enemies Armor. Killing his Armor should be paramount to anything else on your mind. Thus, to begin with, you had 2 VL's, the "heavy" one that ambushed you and the one you destroyed. One thing a Company commander needs to always remember is that if you have 2 objectives, it is better, almost mandatory, to attack 1 objective at a time with your whole company. In this way you stand a much better chance of taking that first objective with very minimal losses and in a timely fashion. Then, with your unit still very much alive and capable, you attack the second. So, perhaps setting up your Armor into 2 separate units is what cost you the battle. You see, unknowingly you forced yourself to say, "these are the 2 lanes I will advance from no matter what is out there", and leaving yourself with limited options in terms of maneuver. As you witnessed, one Platoon was decimated and one platoon won out...50% does not win the battle. Know imagine if you would have set up somewhere in-between the 2 hills, close enough to each lane so that when the time was right, your whole force could have advanced down one of them. This is called a Command Push, you scout out ahead of you, find the weakest spot and push your men on through. You see how this leaves you with many options? Say you could have identified with your scout M-18's that on one side there where some heavies and on the other, a lighter force that could be flanked. Now you thank the Gods of War for blessing you with such good scouts, wipe your chin from the drool of anticipation of the kill, and you send your TD company into the flank of the lighter kampfgruppe. I can say with certainty that you would have lost no more than 4 (probably less) TD's for the prize of half is entire force! Simultaneously you would want to of smoked his heavy force to ensure that they could not help out the lighter force. So, with half his force destroyed, you still have 14 TD's! Life is good. Now is the time where you wait him out. Waiting is the one thing, it seems, you did not do in this battle. You went looking for Death, and he found you! So think of it from his perspective..."Oh ****! Half my force is gone...He has over 10 tanks/TD's left vs. my 5 heavies...hmmm" 14 to 5, those are great odds! Now, with the aid of your snipers, 81mm Arty, and Time, you first:

Make him squirm...wait him out. Let him maneuver himself into your trap.

Kill his TC's with your snipers.

Button up his Tanks with your Arty.

And while your mortars ARE STILL FALLING, you launch your final blow. Think of it, even if you lose 10 of your 14 TD's, you still win! And with this guy, Winning is what it is all about!

BTW: Have you ever tried out the M8HMC for infantry support? It is an excellent little tank to use against infantry...75mm "Grunt Killer", .50 Cal Ma Deuce, and most importantly, they cost 58 or so points! Hell, I have 58 points in my pocket right now! For a buck-twenty you can have 2 of them to bolster your infantry and beat the hell out of his.

Anyway, enough of my banter. Just keep doing what you are doing and you will go far. Like you say, it IS a learning experience.

Out.

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One shot...One Kill

[Guest MantaRay]

Also, you can get "gamey" too by buying 1 plt of infantry and the rest "zooks" on Jeeps. Jeeps to keep the turrents spinning, and zooks to get in close and wack em good. Where is that TOW when you need it again?

Ray

[The Commissar]

Iron Duke,

Thanks for the advice, I really do appreciate it!

Now, to question some tactics, and ask why I did some of the things which cost me big time.

I come from a school of thought that to sorround the enemy is the key to defeating him, and massing up in one huge group is an invitation for the skillfull opponent to sorround you. Of course, this seems to be the wrong school of thought as far as tank combat goes, and I'm eager to learn.

I am also afraid of being flanked, as this has happened to me several times in the earlier days, so to seperte my force to cover both flanks SEEMS logical.

The Super Pershes had indeed failed my expectations. It appears that the only way to defeat those crafty German mechanics is through speed and a steady aiming hand.

My opponent and I will start another game today, and I will apply the lessons I have learned and your advice to it.

It should be a challenge, for the setup is this:

I as the Allies (anyone here surprised?) am on the attack.

2000 points.

Medium trees, medium hills, town battle.

He is setting up the battle, but I requested that the weather and time of day conditions be set to random. Although I realise that as defender my opponent may have an advantage in a night time battle, I believe that I can use the darkness and low visibility to trap him.

He insists on no arty and 200 max points of Infantry. Obviously, he did not enjoy my little 81mm's last game

I will see if I can at least get more arty though, as I am eager to try out those juicy 150mm's!

Well, wish me luck, and once again and again and again, thanks for the adivce.

Cheers!

------------------

"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[Iron Duke]

Hi Commissar,

As far as surrounding the enemy goes, yes, that is a great plan BUT, as Rommel found out, several key things need to happen/be in-place for it:

1. Speed is paramount. This is especially true when you are trying to surround a mechanized force.

2. Obviously, you have to have plenty of troops in order to do this.

3. Even though you may have enough troops to surround his forces, are they spread so thin that the counter-attack/breakout (which is sure to come) smashes through with ease?

4. A highly skilled, crafty, and aggressive Commander can certainly pull it off, but timing, command and control, and most importantly, realizing WHEN to make the call and ACTUALLY making it all weigh in.

So as you can see, it is very difficult to surround any force, let alone a mechanized one. He found, that in the desert where maneuver was King, flanking movements combined with a good base of fire worked far better and achieved greater results. Patton’s old "Hold em by the nose and kick them in the ass" routine.

As far as getting flanked goes...that is always a concern. That is where proper formations come in. When we fought Desert Storm, the US Army came up with/borrowed a great formation just for that purpose. A Diamond. One unit leading in a Wedge, two units in a column formation to form the "legs", and finally, one unit covering the rear in a "V" formation, thus 4 tank Companies formed a large Diamond with all the support (trains) vehicles in the middle. Also note that our mechanized infantry traveled with the rear Tank Company. This formation ensured that if an enemy suddenly appeared from any side, there would be 1 Tank company ready to meet it head on whilst the others maneuvered for position. Also note that this Tank BATALLION (52 M1A1's + 200 or so other vehicles) fit in an area no larger than 1 square kilometer!(actually 1200m x 16-1800m in length. I got to remebering and 1 sq. km just didn't sound right! ) That is serious local superiority!

Another tactic is to use bounding overwatch. With a company-sized force, you could bound a platoon ahead while 2 platoons overwatch, then repeat the process until you gain contact. In this way, if your bounding platoon gets flanked, the guys that flank you are likely to get flanked themselves by your overwatch units. But remember...keep your bounding platoon within gun distance from your overwatch tanks.

Also, take one or two of your tanks and as your unit is moving, send them over to likely flank areas and keep an eye out. You can do this with grunts/sharpshooters also.

Use smoke to cover your move, just make sure to move out smartly.

Finally, use a combination of all the above, but most of all...Always keep an eye out for the enemy. Always.

So as you can see, there are ways of covering your flanks while maintaining a tight formation that projects local superiority wherever it may roam

If you are on the Attack later today and the points are 2000...you should get 3000 points, by the regular PBEM setup rules. So, you should be able to get a nice and buff force going. If the weather is set to random, you'd better hope it doesn't rain, or is muddy...your attack could bog down!

If he is insisting on no Arty, then if I where you, I would insist on a clear morning and get myself 1 or 2 "Jabos" for the fight

Remember, even you need to see!

One last small tip on moving tanks in CM. I have found that if you keep your waypoints fairly short, say 30 to 50 meters each (about 1 to 2 inches on your screen), you will have a lot more flexibility when it comes time to "adjust for local conditions"...if you know what I mean. This is especially true with Regulars because, as you know, you can only adjust each waypoint so much depending on that units skill, so if you have a whole bunch of them, you have a lot of flexibility of movement, even if you have to delete a few. With very long waypoints, there is hardly any flexibility and if you delete just one, well, it sets you waay back! Anyway, I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.

Well, good luck man. Use your anti-tank assets on his tanks before committing your tanks to the fight. Keep your head down, and lead from the front!

------------------

One shot...One Kill

[This message has been edited by Iron Duke (edited 12-07-2000).]

[The Commissar]

Cool, thanks for the advice, Duke!

I'll keep you updated when we get through the game. We won't be able to finish all of it, since I have work and school tommorow unlike today, but we will get through about half way most likely.

I'll see if I could get in an update before retiring to some rest.

Cheers!

------------------

"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[Chupacabra]

Commissar -

Your opponent's asking you to play an attack as the attacker with an essentially armor-only force? And no artillery, no less?

If you haven't figured it out by now, your esteemed opponent is a gamey bastard. If he has even the slightest bit of tactical aptitude, he'll shred your armor from ambush positions, and there won't be a thing you can do about it.

I know that advice is usually about as appealing as seeing your grandma naked, but IMO unless you're having fun, ditch this guy. Winning's all he gives a **** about.

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Grand Poobah of the fresh fire of Heh.

[The Commissar]

Chupy, (can I call you Chupy? No? Too late.)

I've thought about the whole arty thing since he told me not to take any, and I've already made up my mind that I will indeed take some. I've made that exact point to him - about being gamey and how thr Allies had a clear Arty superiority which they used very well - and got no responce. He does seem to be a bit gamey, so I think I can disobey the "rules" a bit to get him.

If he complains and refuses to play, I report my game as a win and if he rebutes that, I plead "self-defense" on gameyness issues

Cheers!

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"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[Chupacabra]

Sounds like a wise plan.

Hell, if I were you I'd be taking quite a bit more than 200 pts worth of infantry as well, so I guess it's just as well I'm not playing him

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Grand Poobah of the fresh fire of Heh.

[The Commissar]

The infantry I don't mind.

Seeing as how just about anything an hand-held doesn't stand a chance of scratching a JagdTiger, JagdPanther, or a KT, much less knocking it out.

The infantry will simply be used to hold VL's, and thus can be seperated into half teams as needed.

The main of the fighting will be between death-wielding, multi-ton behemoths of steel, no question about it.

Cheers!

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"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[Chupacabra]

I've actually found that a close assault or a 'zook to the sides or rear are more effective at taking out the monsters than Allied tanks are. Even with tungsten, even with 90mm-gunned tanks, you're still liable to bounce a few before the game's over. An unsupported tank bushwhacked by infantry is dead no matter how you look at it.

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Grand Poobah of the fresh fire of Heh.

[russellmz]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Commissar:

It should be a challenge, for the setup is this:

I

...

on the attack.

2000 points.

...

town battle.

...

no arty and 200 max points of Infantry.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

screw your leg, break HIS!

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"They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush

"They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show