s bakker Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 mufffdpfpdfpd ufsuufdusfsfd! (it's hard to make cynical comments through clenched teeth ........ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 The only 16" Guns were on the Battleship Rodney (9x 16"). The 15" Warspite and Ramilles (8x 15"). The 14" Texas (10x 14"), Nevada (12x 14"?) Arkansas (8x 14'?). Plus numerous 8" and 6" cruisers, and 5" and 4.7" Destroyers. Actually, Rommel's plan of charging armour up to the beachead to destroy the enemy wasn't that practical. Kesselring tried this at Anzio, but, the guns of the fleet stopped him. The same thing would probably have happened at Normandy. Since there was only one ship armed with 16", you probably won't be seeing too much of 16" shells, plus, they won't be firing full broadsides on such a small battlefield, at least I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 Well common sense would say that but trust me, EVERYONE is going to make at least one "massed 16 inch" scenario for themselves just for the fun of it... I literally created an entirely new valley system on the map I used 3 16 FOs on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 Why do Naval guns have Forward Observers? Shouldn't they be controlled by the AI like Figter-Bombers? ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 Yeah, all the Iowa class battleships were in the pacific. Hmm... Steve, is there any chance the Germans might request some help from the Japanese in CM and get the Yamato available for fire support in some campaigns? 18 inch battleship rounds! *shudder* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 Colin, No. There were FOs for naval guns. How else do you think they knew where to fire? If you really need proving I could do a little digging and give you the exact code numbers and designations of the naval units which went ashore to spot for the battleships as well as the squadrons which spotted for them . I really don't think that'd be necessary though hehe . Take my word for it, they had people spot for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 What about the monitors? HMS Roberts was one. Didn't they mount 16" guns? I'd check my books about three feet away, but I'm just home from work, cold beer in hand, and the cat is already asleep in my lap.... ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 Fionn I don't doubt you for a second. You are way more knowledgeable then I but let me explain the logic in my thinking. With guns that big wouldn't the orders have to come from higher up then some unknown FO in a small part of Western Europe? I'm not arguing but I'm just curious. Might as well learn something from this. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 Forgot about the monitors, but, I am pretty sure that they were armed with some leftover WWI 15" Turrets. Possibly there was a monitor with one of Furios's 18" after she was converted into an Aircraft Carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: I had the Alpha last June IIRC BTW that's jealousy and rage you're feeling now <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hah... Who's the jealous one when we get our copies of CM. You've already had your first time with it we still got ours ahead of us erm.. can't let him get away with it without protesting at least *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 Wait a sec! I never posted the picture of one of these 'BIG GUNS' coming in?!? I guess I know what the POTD is going to be tonight!!! It's odd cause that picture is already on the server and I just KNOW I put it up already...Hmmmmmm ok, I think it was already posted but it will be in tonights POTD ARCHIVE for sure...Big crater!!! Madmatt... ok, check out the POTD for 2-08-2000 and You will see it! That picture is in the POTD Archives section... Full update to follow soon... give or take an hour or so! ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 02-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 Hey Matt that sounds great!!! I'm working on a gallery to put up tonight to! Should be a good night for CM pix. Remember 9:00 EST in the Combat Mission Club! ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 Mebbe that battlewagon got waxed by combined a combined attack of submarines and bombers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 Colin, Methinks you mightn't understand what an FO is.. An FO is a member OF the artillery battalion whose battery he is spotting for. Thus Royal Navy FOs were landed in Normandy who were specially trained to call in battleship-calibre guns. These FOs could call in 5 inch, 6 inch, 8 inch, 15 inch (yes there were a few monitors) and 16 inch fire ( IIRC at least one monitor had a few 16 inch guns). FOs are attached to a particular battalion and, generally speaking can ONLY call in fire from that battalion's batteries. However, the British had a different system whereby, in theory, a single FO in the field could call for ALL the artillery in an ENTIRE CORPS if he wanted. ( we're talking a few hundred guns here ). Anyways, the Brits did things differently and there are cases of arty FOs calling in naval gunfire but generally speaking naval gunfire was an RN FOs job while arty was an arty FOs job. The exceptions were less common than the rule so to speak though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 Fionn, I knew what an FO was but I didn't know that they had them for spotting naval gunfire. I though that it was planned longer in advance because of the size of the gunfire. I think I'll just shut up now. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 Moriarty: The Germans could request the ship to be sent before any such unpleasantness might happen. Besides, the only manly and proper way for such a ship to be taken on is with another such ship in a direct engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted February 12, 2000 Share Posted February 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: Anyways, the Brits did things differently and there are cases of arty FOs calling in naval gunfire but generally speaking naval gunfire was an RN FOs job while arty was an arty FOs job. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Fionn, this is quite interesting, do you know how many RN observers there were (roughly)? Also, how was allocation of the few big guns prioritised? It sounds as if RN observers must have been a highly sought after bunch by front-line commanders. And I guess if you happened to be a US company commander without access to RN observers, it did not really matter what kind of a predicament you were in, b/c you would not get them anyway? Just curious. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted February 13, 2000 Share Posted February 13, 2000 I realize this thread has mutated into the Naval Gunnery thread. But we've still got lots of ground to cover in the wurfrahmen area. Much ballyhoo has been made of the unbalancing and detrimental effect these things had when they appeared in CC3 and again in CC4. Most serious gamers would agree that they didn't belong in CC mostly for reasons of scale. But I can't think of any reason why they are inappropriate to the scale of CM. CM has the ability to more accurately reflect the limitations of these things. Requiring direct LOS, abysmal accuracy, highly vulnerable to small arms, relatively narrow range bracket. With a max range in the neighborhood of 2kms and a minumum range somewhere around 700~750m CM should be able to handle them quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 13, 2000 Share Posted February 13, 2000 The RN system of assigning guns to targets etc is pretty complicated. Basically TARGETS had priorities and if an FO could establish to the satisfaction of himself and a superior or two that a high priority target was in range for directed fire then he could get x amount of guns where x was the maximum amount of guns which were allowed by doctrine to fire at such a target. Thus, an FO looking at the schwerpunkt of a Schwere Panzer Abteilung could call down anything and everything which could shoot. That's a very simple explanation but it contains the gist of what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 13, 2000 Share Posted February 13, 2000 Mr. Cunningham... With all the liabilities you mention (to which you should add painfully long and exposed set up), why would I want one in my orbat? Leave 'em at the rear. ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted February 13, 2000 Share Posted February 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: Basically TARGETS had priorities and if an FO could establish to the satisfaction of himself and a superior or two... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks Fionn, that was what I suspected. I can only imagine the arguments they had over wireless. I guess that a local commander or FO about to be walked over would have very different ideas about priorities than the brass. Cheers, Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted February 13, 2000 Share Posted February 13, 2000 That big boom is why. Used correctly the wurfrahmen carrier could be a potent weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 13, 2000 Share Posted February 13, 2000 The size of the "boom" (frightening, ain't it?) ought not be affected by keeping the launcher off-map. ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted February 13, 2000 Share Posted February 13, 2000 On the Wurfrahmen I'd guess that it would be more appropriate to have it as some sort of off-board arty element (in terms of CM's gameplay). But apparently it is a direct fire weapon (or more likely a "guess"-fire weapon) with no FO for it (?). This would suggest that an on-screen representation would be appropriate, but I believe it will be lumped with the other NebelWerfer weapons and not represented on-screen if I get the gist of previous posts on such weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted February 14, 2000 Share Posted February 14, 2000 Man, there's always gonna be somebody who want's the "ultimate" killing machine... Gimme a G43 and a panzerfaust and I'll take on the lot o' yah single-handed! (Oh, didn't I mention that the hand tied behind my back would be attached to a Sturmmorser Tiger?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts