Juardis Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 I mean, the manual states that a unit's experience will not change during a scenario (cool, it shouldn't during a 90 minute battle) nor during an operation (which could last days). My question with that is, if a green unit experiences one or two battles, doesn't he become un-green? If not, and I start with a green unit and will finish with a green unit in an operation, what good is the Kill info. Knowing my green unit killed 20 units is irrelevant isn't it if it doesn't affect his combat rating? Maybe it's just cool knowing how many units such and such killed? ------------------ Jeff Abbott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 I find the kill info useful in pointing out the most effective units in a battle (in terms of lethality). For example, did that MG really do that much damage, or did it just suppress some units. You get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juardis: Knowing my green unit killed 20 units is irrelevant isn't it if it doesn't affect his combat rating? Maybe it's just cool knowing how many units such and such killed?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How exactly does killing a lot of enemies affect the experience/combat rating of a unit? That is a bit of jump to me. And as MT said, it is not just cool, but it is a valuable learning tool for you as the player, about effective positioning and use of various unit types. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 I think what Juardis is trying to say is that the lowest Green? experience level is meant for units that have no combat experience. So after being in 2 or 3 battles in an operation it should go up an experience level to conscript? for the remaining battles in the op. This representing that the unit has now experienced combat and learnt a few tricks of the trade. ------------------ IN VINO VERITAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Speedy: I think what Juardis is trying to say is that the lowest Green? experience level is meant for units that have no combat experience. So after being in 2 or 3 battles in an operation it should go up an experience level to conscript? for the remaining battles in the op. This representing that the unit has now experienced combat and learnt a few tricks of the trade. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> IIRC, this is connected to the fact that there is no time to absorb the lessons learned in the short time between battles in an operation. Once they stop fighting they are not going to go through the mistakes they made. I guess you would need a lot more levels of experience if even some minimum exposure in combat was modeled at this level. And I was just interested in how Juardis arrived at the connection between the number of kills and the unit's experience. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 From what I have seen of combat reports, the jump from green to inexperienced is generally just one fire fight. The difference between inexperienced and a line/veteran unit is knowledge. This could take some time. The difference between a green and inexperienced unit is just getting used to the idea of actually *doing* something in a combat situation. When you read first hand combat reports, from almost any time period, the difference between 0 fights and 1 fight is vastly greater than the difference between 1 fight and almost any number of fights. Of course, I am totally ignoring the effects of training. They can significantly mitigate the "green" effect. Does CM give green units any kind of bonus for being around non-green units? I would guess that a green platoon, without any vets around to "stiffen" then, would break and run almsot immediately when brought under fire, whereas a green unit mixed in with some vets would be much more liekly to stay in place and return fire. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 IIRC, the experience levels are: 1. Conscript - almost no training 2. Green - training, little/no combat 3. Veteran - some combat, with perhaps some green soldiers mixed in 4. Crack - lots of experience (rare on the battlefield) 5. Elite - Godlike experience and training. Very, very rarely found. Therefore, the question is, does one battle promote a green unit to a veteran unit? [This message has been edited by Mannheim Tanker (edited 06-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted June 21, 2000 Author Share Posted June 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: How exactly does killing a lot of enemies affect the experience/combat rating of a unit? That is a bit of jump to me. And as MT said, it is not just cool, but it is a valuable learning tool for you as the player, about effective positioning and use of various unit types. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, a conscript or green unit would be expected to panic easily. If they happen to be well positioned and happen to rack up the kills, presumably they would be more confident in the next battle and hence, less likely to panic. String together 3 or so of these types of battles and maybe green units aren't green anymore. Just a thought. With regards to kill info I see too many variables affecting that number. Now, if it was a green unit that racked up 20 kills, then you could probably attribute that to good positioning. But if it was a veteran unit, was it good positioning, good combat readiness, luck, or a combination thereof? But I appreciate y'alls thoughts on it. I see better the value in the kill number. ------------------ Jeff Abbott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mannheim Tanker: IIRC, the experience levels are: 1. Conscript - almost no training 2. Green - training, little/no combat 3. Veteran - some combat, with perhaps some green soldiers mixed in 4. Crack - lots of experience (rare on the battlefield) 5. Elite - Godlike experience and training. Very, very rarely found. Therefore, the question is, does one battle promote a green unit to a veteran unit? [This message has been edited by Mannheim Tanker (edited 06-21-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I know this has been debated to death, but I think the answer is: It depends. Certainly if we are going to create these discrete "levels" of quality, then some given unit will, at some point, move from one quality level to the other, and not necessarily in a positive direction! Given that, I think it reasonable that there be a chance for a unit to increase in quality at some point during or after a battle, especially at the very low end of the spectrum. My understanding is that BTS has decided that units, for some reason, can never chane their experience level in the scope of the game. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 Hi I don't expect unit promotion, this is not that kind of wargame. I figured kill stats were pretty much just for interest sake of the player to see how well his units did just for fun. Like how some guys wnats to pin virtual medals on their digital warriors who show bravery and heroism in combat. I think its mostly just for fun. I'm glad there is no unit promotion. I like it the way it is. And I think Kill stats are just for entertainment value only. -tom w <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mannheim Tanker: I find the kill info useful in pointing out the most effective units in a battle (in terms of lethality). For example, did that MG really do that much damage, or did it just suppress some units. You get the point.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Have you thanked BTS by buying your SECOND copy of CM yet?" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted June 21, 2000 Share Posted June 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mannheim Tanker: IIRC, the experience levels are: 1. Conscript - almost no training 2. Green - training, little/no combat 3. Veteran - some combat, with perhaps some green soldiers mixed in 4. Crack - lots of experience (rare on the battlefield) 5. Elite - Godlike experience and training. Very, very rarely found. Therefore, the question is, does one battle promote a green unit to a veteran unit? [This message has been edited by Mannheim Tanker (edited 06-21-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You forgot "Regular" which fits in between Green and Veteran. ------------------ The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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