Runyan99 Posted October 6, 2000 Share Posted October 6, 2000 I know the PIAT has been discussed quite a bit before (yes, I did a search), but I came across something I want to share. I was reading Ambrose's book "Pegasus Bridge", and the veterans of the British Airborne's Ox and Bucks swear up and down that trying to hit anything with the PIAT beyond 50 meters was damn near impossible. In CM, I myself have killed a PzIV with a PIAT at a range close to 125 meters. Also, CM lists the maximum range of the PIAT at 200 meters, I believe, but other statistics revealed by my search quote a maximum range of 125 meters or so. So, does the CM PIAT shoot too far, too accurately? ------------------ "Artillery is a terrible thing. God, I hate it." Pvt. David Webster 101st airborne 1942-45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted October 6, 2000 Share Posted October 6, 2000 info on the piat i've seen is that it has an effective range of around 120 yards; it can penetrate 75mm, it's heavy (30 lbs?), is very difficult to cock. It's essentially a big spring-loaded crossbow. -john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaSCa Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 And it won't start your light building on fire when some idiot shoots it out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 In a battle against the AI one of my PIAT teams started shooting at a tank that was 175 metres away without me telling it to - they didn't hit it however. ----------------------------------- "I love it, God help me I do love it so" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tiger: info on the piat i've seen is that it has an effective range of around 120 yards; it can penetrate 75mm, it's heavy (30 lbs?), is very difficult to cock. It's essentially a big spring-loaded crossbow. -john<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The difficulty cocking is a little misleading. The round is rocket propelled. It is launched via a spring, but the launch also re-cocks the weapon. It is only when it malfunctions that it is difficult to cock. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Eyes Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 The PIAT was described as 'violent to fire'. In an action in Italy Fusilier Jefferson ran into the open and fired his PIAT from the hip; stopping two Tigers at close range. He was awarded the Victoria Cross. The general opinion in the ranks was that he deserved it for firing the thing from the hip. ------------------ It is easy to be brave from a safe distance. -Aesop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 The difficulty cocking is a little misleading. The round is rocket propelled. It is launched via a spring, but the launch also re-cocks the weapon. It is only when it malfunctions that it is difficult to cock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaSCa Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CaSCa: And it won't start your light building on fire when some idiot shoots it out the window.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Does this rocket propelledness mean that it will start your light building of fire when some idiot shoots it out the window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 Yes, the backblast of zooks and schrecks can start a building on fire. Also, I have experienced in CM an instance where 2 veteran PIATs fired all 20 rounds at a Puma at 100m or less in range and missed. I swear I heard the Puma crew laughing their butts off. I was not amused. ------------------ "Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" — Oddball "Crap." — Moriarty [This message has been edited by Moriarty (edited 10-07-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 Guys, Though I will reply in detail later, it's time to straighten out a few things here. The PIAT is NOT a rocket. It is a spigot weapon and uses an explosive charge akin to a big shotgun shell to fire the antitank bomb off the same steel rod (the spigot) whose impact inside the hollow tail assembly fires it. Firing the weapon recocks a big nasty spring, which otherwise would require great exertion and considerable risk of back injury to cock the weapon. The PIAT is NOT a kind of crossbow. There is NO WAY that spring could throw the antitank bomb hundreds of meters. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaSCa Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Only the British would invent something this confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>WO 291/153The effectiveness of PIAT shooting. "User performance with the PIAT is dependent on the accuracy of shooting, the proportion of fuzes detonating on hitting the tank, and the effect of the bomb on various parts of a tank. Trials have been carried out which give information on the first two of these points." 3 serials were fired, one by "average" trained soldiers and 2 by above-average users, one of staff from AORS 6. The results should therefore be regarded as an upper bound on possible performance. The serials were fired using an inert bomb with identical ballistics to the HE/AT round. The target was a Covenanter tank moving at about 10 mph, either crossing at 70 to 110 yards, approaching at 110 to 65 yards, or receding at 35 to 110 yards. Overall percentages of hits were: The percentage of hits "...is noticeably greater with crossing and receding targets, and firers put this down to the 'sense of hurry' that seems to exist when a tank is fast approaching. This appears to be a genuine effect, and not due to chance errors." Percentages of hits on 1st, 2nd and 3rd shots were: "There is no great difference between the percentage of hits with first, second and third shots, although the proportion is slightly greater with the second." Percentages of hits at different ranges were: In the case of receding targets, the range bands are less than and more than 65 yards. "The effect of range on the percentage of hits is not very great; about two thirds as many shots hit above 85 yards as below. It is certainly not possible to obtain a hit with certainty by waiting until the tank is within say 70 yards. The reason for the unexpectedly poor performance at short ranges is presumably the increase in angular movement of the target, combined, perhaps, with the 'sense of hurry' already mentioned." Percentage of hits detonating were: "From these figures it can be seen that about 75% of hits detonate with the DA Fuze 425. No DA Fuzes 426 were available for trial, but it is assumed that a greater proportion of them, perhaps as much as 90%, would detonate." "The average number of rounds in an engagement was 3". It is pointed out that the current ammunition allotment for PIAT is 6 bombs per gun. "It is held by some that the PIAT may not be able to fire as many as three rounds before it is spotted by the tank. This is not proved."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The above was derived from: John Salt's anthology of WWII statistical studies. Salt’s primary source is PRO, Kew, mostly from the series WO 291, which are reports and memoranda from operational research (OR) sections during and after WW2. Other useful series are WO 231, military training files, and WO 232, papers from the Directorate of Tactical Investigation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Moriarty: Yes, the backblast of zooks and schrecks can start a building on fire. Also, I have experienced in CM an instance where 2 veteran PIATs fired all 20 rounds at a Puma at 100m or less in range and missed. I swear I heard the Puma crew laughing their butts off. I was not amused.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, I wasn't amused when a regular PIAT team fired TWO shots and knocked out a Panther and a StuG. They were moving and more than 100 m away from the PIAT (IIRC about 120 m). I'm pretty sure the team could see only the turret/upper hull of my vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 During the Pegasus Bridge scen. one of my PIATs killed a PzIVG from about 165m away without being ordered to shoot-I had positioned the team behind the stone wall in case the tank tried to retake the bridge but when the Germans started driving away from the bridge I didnt expect the PIAT have any chance of killing them-but they killed it on the first shot. Needless to say that gunner and the half strength engineer platoon that destroyed the other PzIVG with satchel charges will be getting medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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