I keep getting stomped

[BPCleary]

How in hell are you supposed to beat last defense? The best I can do after hours of playing is to fight (as the allies) to an Axis minor victory...I don't know if the mission is unbalanced intentionally, but I keep really getting crushed...any suggestions, tactics, troop formations, prayers I should try?

Still a great game...I'm d/ling the sound pack from CoolJ (I think that's his name) seems interesting...I like a game with open enough design that user created stuff can be intergrated so easily

[Guest hunt52]

I have found that only two strategies work as the allies:

1. Hide. Don't let the german player see you until the turn before your 'cats show up. Then unload with everything you've got.

2. Attack Attack Attack! A two platoon assault into the woods near the german position is costly but usually suffices to bloody them enough so that you can hold out in the long run.

I've found that holding the town for the game is hard. I've had better success offering a token defense in town, waiting till the attrited germans fight their way in, and hammering them with a fresh platoon.

Wait till the armor superiority is gone and hammer them!

(p.s. if the german player uses lots of smoke you are screwed )

- Bill

[Lurker]

Personally I prefer ritual pre-combat magic dances to traditional prayers when playing the Ami's in Last Defense.

I also lost several times attempting to hold against the Germans. However, I think the massive bloodshed among my troops has finally started to have some impact on my tactics.

I started off with a forward defense. Stop the Germans from taking any of the objectives! Hold to the last man! As I suspect you have already discovered, that isn't the way to win this scenario.

Try pulling your troops back a little bit. Don't think of this as abandoning the objectives to the Germans, but rather as a way of luring the Germans into a trap. Let them occupy the forward objectives, but position your troops in a manner to allow good lines of fire so that you hurt them while they're taking those positions.

Of course, good lines of fire for you also mean good lines of fire in return. So, be prepared to pull troops back into secondary firing positions.

Try setting ambushes in an attempt to lure the enemy into the open.

And don't forget the ritual pre-combat magic dance.

None of my ideas will assure you of victory, but they may help.

Good luck.

-Lurker

[CoolColJ]

BPCleary have you downloaded SPR sound pack file 5 yet? If you haven't then its ok, but if you have dl'ed it before this message, I just added a new file to it.

You can grab it by re downloading the 5th patch file or goto to webpage and type this address in to grab it - or you can try right click and save as for PC users

http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj/00001020.wav

enjoy

------------------

CCJ

aka BLITZ_Force

My Hompage ----> http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj

Double your immersion with my Tweaked Textures and Saving Private Ryan sound set mods for CM!! Check out my new Textures V2.0 photo Gallery and my music while your there!

[This message has been edited by CoolColJ (edited 02-27-2000).]

[John Kettler]

BP,

I have found that either side can win, but a lot depends on what the Germans do or don't do.

They need to be aggressive early on, but under cover or in great long range hull down positions when the Hellcats appear. The combination of hellacious fields of fire from the ridge, high rate of fire, good penetration at most engagement ranges (even against a Tiger tank) and a nasty HE round makes the Hellcats murderous once they appear. The trick lies in surviving until they do.

I have played the Beta demo against both the AI and friends in hotseat, and I have found that there are some things which really help.

1. Your mortars can reach all the way back to the German entry area. Often, the arriving forces will be bunched up, riding armor, and AFVs will be unbuttoned. This is an ideal opportunity to throw the proverbial spanner into the works. Use every tube you have to blanket the new arrivals in a storm of mortar bursts, but remember to shut the fire off in the next turn. I like to issue hide orders. A 60mm mortar crew will go through the roughly thirty rounds of ammo in very short order otherwise, leaving you little for later.

Another thing I like to do is target Panzergrenadiers in their halftracks, either directly (preferably while static) or set up a minibarrage through which they must advance, say, the angled road and immediate surrounds near the stone objective house on the American right. A near miss will usually stop the vehicle, and a direct hit wipes out the 251 and its tenacious, otherwise hard to kill SS occupants.

2. The .50 caliber HMG is an antivehicle weapon. It can and will kill halftracks (mine got two in one game), so be sure to position it where it has a good field of fire in as many directions as possible (use LOS tool). I always have it in the upper floor of a building, but that means running some risk of losing the team to either direct fire from Tiger and StuGs or even through the building's being demolished by German artillery fire.

3. Realize that the first objective on the American right is extremely vulnerable to crossfire and can be most unhealthy for the occupants and those nearby. I tend to either refuse my flank there or put only a small force there. I like to position myself in the stone houses on the angled road, frequently with forces in the nearby woods. Doing this gives both depth and mutual support to my positions, while keeping me out of murderous AFV direct fires.

4. The baseline wall defense is fairly stout. Realize, though, that if the German commits halftracks on your right, your troops are going to be enfiladed by multiple MGs (possibly armor too), while under fire from the woods and possibly the hill on the American left.

The last time I played the game, I was under fire from two halftracks to my right, while being assaulted by two SS squads to my left (long axis of the wall near the corner) and three squads (two SS, one Wehrmacht to my direct front) and a StuG firing from my right by the road. A handful of carefully hoarded mortar rounds, tremendously gutsy defenders and a steel-nerved bazooka team beat off an attack which seemed certain to succeed. The bazooka team, having knocked off the StuG in a head-on fight, then went on to kill the Tiger, which had unwisely moved up in the center, putting two rounds in succession right through its turret side.

That said, I'm fond of putting a squad in the first objective building on the American left, often with the bazooka team, which I keep hidden. Doing this offers some insurance against a major German push on the American right, making the wall defense considerably more resilient. But let's face it, if all the German armor's on your extreme right, your days won't be dull. You'll be subjected to a rain of fire which you'll be hard pressed to survive. Don't grow too attached to that platoon. Just remember that you are fighting a delaying action and that the stone wall position, while stout, is also brittle, with poor fallback options.

5. Fight the Tiger and Stugs if you must, but put a priority on killing the halftracks. They are fast, well armed, and can disembowel your defenses in minutes with close assaulting SMG squads unless stymied and hurt at every opportunity.

6. Unless he's in a position to rush you, hide portions of your line infantry force in succession. Why take 88 fire in the face when you can befriend the bottom of your foxhole and live to fight later? Besides, a break will do wonders for the morale state of disturbed troops.

7. Watch your MGs carefully. They are the linchpins of your defense. Make sure that they're shooting only at something worthwhile. Move or hide MGs if things are getting out of hand. Be sure to watch ammo status.

As a concluding thought, delay, delay, delay. Time is the Germans' enemy and your friend. Do anything and everything to disrupt his tactics and derail his timetable. Block roads whenever possible, preferably with his dead vehicles.

End of tactical briefing.

John Kettler

[BPCleary]

Yeehee...After posting I tried it again and was finally able to beat the damn thing <only took four days> but with a big allied total victory. The tactics posted here helped a lot, and I was able to set up a superior defense that held until my tanks showed, and then with their help <even though it took me 4 save/loads to not get them killed on the first turn> I was able to stem the Hun tide and drive them right off the map. I also realized a major disadvantage of the hellcat over other pure tanks, the crew has to be exposed to fire the 50cal mounted on top. This is a nuisance but obiviously a realism point. Something that annoys me though is that embarked soldiers cannot use this weapon, which is fairly unrealistic I think...just a thought.

Thanks for all your help everyone...now I start playing as the Germans

Brian P. Cleary

P.S. -I did d/l the soundpack's <all five> and they're great...didn't do the texture pack yet but I'll get to it..nice work.

[John Kettler]

Glad to help. "You have learned well, Grasshopper."

Now, you must learn the really hard lesson--how to attack. It will not be easy.

John Kettler

[Fionn]

Umm, there was a discussion about firing from HTs on the beta lista LONG time ago (think 6 months or so ago).

basic gist was that I wanted troops to fire while mounted but Charles pointed out that it really wasn't that common AND would lead to some VERY ahistorical tactics ( e.g. putting troops in your HTs and rushing them around the field of battle as mobile pillboxes proof to anything except a tank, a zook or a 0.5).

In any case I've seen many shots of troops in HTs under fire and have only ever seen the MG being fired in return, never the troops' rifles.

[Major Tom]

All the fotage I have seen of WWII, say for a few movies, have troops fleeing from any vehicle that they were riding on once the enemy opened up on them. Not too many were thinking of firing while on a moving halftrack, 10 guys, all bunched together, 1 grenade and BOOM, -10 guys. Nobody would be that stupid to take the risk of speeding around a battlezone, guns blasing while riding a tank. It only happens in the movies. Vehicles only get the Infantry from place to place, the armour is so that they won't get nailed outright in an ambush.

[MrPeng]

Dude, the first time i played the amis in LD against the German AI i got hammered pretty good. Since that time I feel pretty damn embarrased if the AI even comes close to a victory. I STOMP it into a puddle of aryan goo regularly and without remorse. Now against a fine opponent like oh, Elvis, I might get my ass kicked if I am not first very shy and then EXTREMELY aggressive. suck the bastards into town and then eat thier stinking guts. Kettler's advice about the mortars is RIGHT FRICKIN ON MAN. they can definitely help you out with blowing up HTs and the poor bastards in them. Hellcats RULE part two of the game. you have got to suck the german armor into town before they arrive tho or they can be picked off as soon as they enter, which is a MAJOR drag. They are very fast. don't let them sit in one spot or they will be toast.

Good luck and prepare to be very embarrased if you dont start kicking some AI butt soon.

One last thing. NEVER TAKE ANY ADVICE FROM ME. I am a complete idiot.

Peng out

[Walt]

How to beet Last Defense:

1). Wait till final game.

2). Load up editor.

3). Add two platoons of Pershings, replace 60mm mortars with 81mm mortars and double the number, add pillboxes, add 12 16" naval gun spotters, add a squadron of P-47 interdiction aircraft.

4). Delete all Axis armor except for the half-tracks (double the number of half-tracks so you have something more to shoot at).

5). Order your spotters to carpet the woods and area behind it with 16" fire, wait for the enemy to advance and be slaughtered.

6). After the barrage move into the moonscape and spend the rest of the war trying to piece together the German body parts to get an accurate body count.

Anyone up for a PBEM game after the final version is released?!

[guachi]

Sure!

As long as I get to pick the side.

Jason

[Walt]

ACK!!!

My plot if foiled!

[foxhole]

I don't know, but i find it harder to win as the axis than the allies. when they get their reinforcements all my tanks die and then their hellcats counter assult my troops.

[foxhole]

I don't know, but i find it harder to win as the axis than the allies. when they get their reinforcements all my tanks die and then their hellcats counter assult my troops.

[mikeadams]

I have found a way of getting an Axis victory that nearly always works, but is so unrealistic that I don't use it. Button up your armor and run it as fast as possible to the American entry point. Then set your vehicles on either side of the road. On turn 9 have them start to move toward the road in Hunt mode. If you also have your HE timed to arive at the entry point at the start of turn 10 you can usually eliminate all the Hellcats and much of the infantry