O/T - Why is WWII so fascinating ?

[Wesy]

For me it all started when I was a kid and I got my grubby hands over a copy of Maru - for those that don't know what this magazine was/is, it's essentially a WWII military periodical in Japanese. Heavy leanings on things with the IJN (given where the magazine was published)although things German often appeared. Mind you, I don't read Japanese, but I saw really cool pix (at least in my opinion) and line drawings of Japanese Navy ships. Plus the ads for the Japanese Ship Models were tres cool.

Both my parents and their families were in Japan during the war so I got a different take on the war. As an impressionable young kid of Japanese descent, all I saw were the typical WWII Jingoistic Hollywood propaganda flicks, that ALWAYS portrayed the Japanese as some racial stereotype that had buck teeth and was extremely near sighted My parents don't like to talk about the war, but they told me of working in the factories, hiding in the bomb shelter during the B29 raids, running from the fires, getting strafed by Grumman F6F Hellcats, my Uncle's internment in the Soviet Gulag etc.

Then the world changed when I first saw Tora Tora Tora a great flick that for the first time illustrated the professionalism/skill of the IJN and that a certain faction within the Navy was AGAINST going to war with the US. Wow was this a revelation from the usual stuff that I saw on tv.

Ever since then, I've been interested in military history/current events. WWII was terrible. What the Japanese did in China and to others was terrible. War is hell to all sides involved.

I have never experienced war nor wish to, but it fascinates me to no end.

[von Lucke]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wesy:

My parents don't like to talk about the war, but they told me of working in the factories, hiding in the bomb shelter during the B29 raids, running from the fires, getting strafed by Grumman F6F Hellcats, my Uncle's internment in the Soviet Gulag etc.

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When I was but a grub attending college back in CA, I had a class in caligraphy taught by a man who had been through the same things your parents had. (Up to this point I'd only ever talked to one other man who had seen the sharp end of WW2: This other man had been a navigator for a B-29 that had bombed Japan. He'd talked about his bomb runs in the laconic terms of pilots from time immemorial, like it was no big deal --- just a job). Well, on one rare occasion near the end of the term, I got my caligraphy teacher to say a little about what it was like to be on the receiving end, and I will always remember the look on this quiet, patient man's face when he said that the city he had lived in was bombed flat, and still the American bombers came back every day and bombed it again, and again, and again... It woke me up. For all the statistics that get thrown around on this board, what it comes down to is the individual human beings whose lives were irrevocably changed...

[von Lucke]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agrow:

Maybe I should join the military and get a few battle scars.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, when I was active Army, I served with a few women who impressed me far more with their hoo-ah attitude and military bearing than many of their male counter-parts ever did.

It's something of a falacy to believe that women are not as agressive as men. Studies done on hyenas (of all things) have shown that, if anything, the female is more agressive than the male: From inception, female hyenas are supercharged in the womb with an excess of estrogen (the female hormone), and they are born snapping, biting, and kicking. Female hyenas are larger, more agressive, and do most of the killing in hyena packs.

Ok, hyenas aren't human. But the closest thing to a human hyena pack was the Mongol Horde of Genghis Khan: They, at one point, controlled the largest empire in mankind's history. They also encouraged their women to be warriors. They were also known for their lack of compassion or mercy. Coincidence?

It's that old nature vs. nuture argument: IMHO women in our culture just aren't expected to be agressive, so they aren't encouraged in any way to be so. And as you said Agrow, maybe it's better for the human race that they aren't...

[Agrow]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by von Lucke:

It's something of a falacy to believe that women are not as agressive as men. Studies done on hyenas (of all things) have shown that, if anything, the female is more agressive than the male: From inception, female hyenas are supercharged in the womb with an excess of estrogen (the female hormone), and they are born snapping, biting, and kicking. Female hyenas are larger, more agressive, and do most of the killing in hyena packs.

Ok, hyenas aren't human. But the closest thing to a human hyena pack was the Mongol Horde of Genghis Khan: They, at one point, controlled the largest empire in mankind's history. They also encouraged their women to be warriors. They were also known for their lack of compassion or mercy. Coincidence?

It's that old nature vs. nuture argument: IMHO women in our culture just aren't expected to be agressive, so they aren't encouraged in any way to be so. And as you said Agrow, maybe it's better for the human race that they aren't...

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LOL... I have been told this before actually.. how Israli female soliders are far more likely to kill then to take captives.

Good thing for the Allies that the Germans never caught on to sending their women into combat.

[Agrow]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV:

Agrow: Having belately realized the identity of your spousal unit, I need to add that you should indeed be proud of your subconscious selection instinct, as he has slain many mammoths... his name will be chanted in the cave-songs for many moons... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How did u figure out who my spousal unit is? If u have ur not allowed to blab .. I'll get into trouble.

LOL ... Men wish they could still go out and strike down mammoths, but in truth I think you'd all run for the hills!

[Mark IV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>LOL ... Men wish they could still go out and strike down mammoths, but in truth I think you'd all run for the hills!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some of us still live to hunt, and not just with guns... though I certainly wouldn't aim one of my arrows at a mammoth (and I would definitely be shopping for a bigger gun).

Many cities in the northern US have trouble with deer populations (they are much more numerous now than when the white man first came). In Pennsylvania, they have a special spear-hunting season for deer. Lots of us bowhunt bear and wild boar, and if we drew a mammoth permit we'd figure something out... bet there's nothing like mammoth cutlets on the barbie.

I would agree that women warriors have at least an equal capacity for cruelty- but they are still the exception. The instincts for the hunt, for war, and for wargaming are, I believe, similar...

[iggi]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>how Israli female soliders are far more likely to kill then to take captives.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's probably because they're more afraid to be captured. The stakes are higher for them. Unless of course they're lucky to be in a 'civilized' war.

[Major Tom]

Well, I think it does go beyond mere instinct as well. We are shown throughout our lives though TV and our ancestors that the "greatest", rather most influential part of their life was during a war. We are ingraned to see war as something cool, or interesting. Sure, many guys like to play wargames, probably to emulate their heros in the only way they can. Usually the most non-violent of us are extremely interested in conflict.

Why is WWII so popular? Well, what other single war has involved 100% of the planet? (Other than the cold war). The reason so many people are interested as it affected every nation in the world, it was probably the most defining 4 years in the history of world Civilization. People always look back to the "good old days" when everything was black and white, good and evil, etc. We are detatched from the truth, being that there never was good and evil or black and white situations, it is only an illusion.

[Guest Captitalistdoginchina]

To keep my answer simple - WW2 is still in living memory for many people of our generation, also WW2 was the first war to be covered so dramatically by media, today we can watch hundreds of WW2 documentaries, read thousands of books and we have access to so many museums. WW2 was also the war that saw so much technological advance in such a short timescale - it was a case of measure and countermeasure of technology in Ships, submarines, airplanes and weapons. WW2 was so meticulously documented by both sides that historians are able to piece together so much of the huge conflict.For these reasons many of us will find WW2 fascinating - of course others will have their own personnal reasons as well.

Just my opinion,

CDIC

[Hakko Ichiu]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agrow:

*** Ah well I was actually told women are far crueler then men that's why it is best we stay out of war... no mercy

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"When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains

And the women come out to cut up what remains

Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains

And go to your Gawd like a soldier."

-- Rudyard Kipling, "The Young British Soldier"

Ethan

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Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe

[Fokker]

WWII is facinating for me, because it is the first real conflict that coordinates air power, sea power, and land power. Sure, WWI did this to some extent, but not in the diversity of tank formations and mech. warfare to such a point. That is what makes this war so facinating, a dependance on technology and equipment and the strength of human flesh coupled by a heap of will to survive. This is twentieth century warfare at its best!

[Black Sabot]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agrow:

Trying to figure out what the big deal is.. that's about it. Trying to figure out why my husband would rather spend hours with CM then me.

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Agrow,

if indeed your husband is spending hours with CM rather than with you, might i recommend: http://www.fredericks.com/

My wife has NO problem distracting me from the game

[Guest gyrene251]

For me it' s because of my family. My grandfather, (Dad's side), served as a combat engineer in Europe, my step grandfather was in the Philippines, a great uncle in the Navy (destroyers in the Navy, Pacific) and another great uncle in the Army in Europe (severly wounded by MG fire, he survived). My mother is French and lived four years of her childhood under Nazi occupation.

Secondly, I am a history buff and I love to play games which allow me to see the other side and answer those "what if" questions!

Steve Dixon

"Gyrene251"

USMC 1975-1979

Honorary Member, 70th Infantry Division Association

[Trooper]

Nope, sorry lad(')s, I'm in a minority here, probably of '1'. WWII does not fascinate me more than any other war. There isn't much of a military heritage in my family, my father spent a couple of his college years as a reserve mortarman for the hell of it, and my grandfather fought as a naval officer in the Greek Civil War, and that was about it really.

Now, I'm a gizmologist. I'm into gadgets and thingies and widgets in a big way. You get more gadgets and thingies and widgets in modern equipment, thus the more modern the equipment, the more interested I am. In my case, the two conflicts which hold my interest most have been the Arab-Israeli bouts, and the Falklands War. Both were situations with modern(ish) technology, both could have easily gone either way.

I find myself most interested by the tactical application of the technology involved, the intellectual challenge, as it were. (Yes, I also play chess!). Though I know better, I look at things in terms of wargaming.. unit against unit, ship against ship, and try not to think of the actual carnage in blood and anguish being caused in this interraction. Concepts of 'Good vs Evil' do not come into play here. The average Argentinian, Arab or German soldier was not evil, just serving his country. I can't say I appreciated the dress sense of the time so 'cool uniforms' don't do it for me either!

Maybe it's inhumane to have such a detached attitude to warfare... or maybe it's the most sane thing in the world....

Nicholas

[Herr Oberst]

Hmm... Maybe I'm just weird, but I see the fascination as being the last war before technology really took over the battlefield.

I'm not into sims that handle the modern stuff, because so much of it is "if your equipment is better than his, and you push this button first, you win". Flyers, tank drivers, subs, etc.

For fun and showing skill, give me one where the person "at the controls" / "in charge" / whatever, has to get fairly up close and personal.

That's also what turned me on to the CC series first. I might tell them what to do, but they aren't automatons. The only thing missing (apart from some good AI) was the retort "F**k you!" or "Bite me!" when you told a recon team to assault a Panther tank.

"Holding tight" should have been "No f***ing way!"

"They got our tank" should have been "Well now we're f***ed"

"The blood!" should have been "Aww, s**t! I'm hit!"

[Agrow]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Black Sabot:

Agrow,

if indeed your husband is spending hours with CM rather than with you, might i recommend: http://www.fredericks.com/

My wife has NO problem distracting me from the game

*** I seriously doubt the distraction lasts as long as all ur CM games.

And that would be my point.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Black Sabot]

*** I seriously doubt the distraction lasts as long as all ur CM games.

And that would be my point

Damm good point! Might i then suggest you challenge your Hub to a CM hotseat match. You never know, you might end up loving it more than him

[Agrow]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Black Sabot:

*** I seriously doubt the distraction lasts as long as all ur CM games.

And that would be my point

Damm good point! Might i then suggest you challenge your Hub to a CM hotseat match. You never know, you might end up loving it more than him <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't want anything to do with my husband anymore. Let alone play a game with him. I am just trying to understand why CM and WWII is more important to men then their relationship.

Or am I in a unique situation? Perhaps this is a whole new thread.. I don't know.