BeWary Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Hi all. I'm new to Combat Mission, and wargaming in general for that matter, and I'm lost when reading many of the posts here because you all use so many acronyms! Is there a listing somewhere so I'm not forever clueless? Thanks, BeWary ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirage2k Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 I don't think that there's an "Idiot's Guide to Military Acronyms" anywhere that I can think of. But if you list some of those that confuse you, I (and others, I'm sure) would be happy to help. -Andrew ------------------ Throw me a frickin' smiley people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mirage2k: I (and others, I'm sure) would be happy to help. -Andrew <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I 2nd this! I'm usually not far away from my PC 8AM-5PM (forum time) weekdays, so drop me an email if you want. ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WendellM Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 Around a decade ago I bought a 91-page booklet © 1986: "MilSpeak: A Dictionary of International Military Acronyms & Abbreviations" compiled by Andy Lightbody and Joe Poyer. Quite useful. I'll let you know if I find a more modern source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted July 20, 2000 Author Share Posted July 20, 2000 Cool, thanks guys (and girls?). I'll start compiling my list. BeWary ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 BeWary, Back then with all the soft lead they used I'd rather be dead than "badly wounded". Badly wounded usually meant a limb was missing . As for acronyms.. Post a list here and I'm sure everyone'll gang up and translate for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WendellM Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 I was unable to find a more modern version of Lightbody's and Poyer's Milspeak (a then-$6 paperback with 4,000 WWII and then-modern entries expanded, but not defined). The best I found was at Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1557506809. It's 300+ pages(!) but runs $28 and there's a somewhat cautionary review there (well, MilSpeak didn't "define" the terms either). Also, I can't tell if it includes WW II terms (I'd be wary). It looks like asking is better all-around . [This message has been edited by WendellM (edited 07-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: BeWary, Back then with all the soft lead they used I'd rather be dead than "badly wounded". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> From what I've read, the lead was less of a problem than the infections due to the bullet carrying into the wound bits of clothing and other septic material on or close to the skin. Perhaps if they had survived the infections the lead poisoning would have become a problem later. In a book I read about the battle of Waterloo, the author in discussing the casualty list mentioned that in those days, having your flesh penetrated was a virtual death sentence. Probably an exaggeration, but it does convey the idea. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BeWary: Hi all. I'm new to Combat Mission, and wargaming in general for that matter, and I'm lost when reading many of the posts here because you all use so many acronyms! Is there a listing somewhere so I'm not forever clueless?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I used to have a URL to a webpage that had such a listing (mostly for modern stuff though, I fear), but I can't seem to find it. Sorry not to be more helpful, but likely there is a site that has what you are looking for out there somewhere. BTW, if you manage to track one down, I for one would appreciate hearing about it. Meanwhile, I'll ask around and see what I can come up with. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted July 20, 2000 Author Share Posted July 20, 2000 WendellM, Thanks. I definitely will be wary. I don't know about spending $30 for it though. I think I'll just pick your brains. Fionn, I would take a lost limb over a lost life any day (unless the head is considered a limb ). BeWary ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonicc Posted July 20, 2000 Share Posted July 20, 2000 After using the vaunted search function (using acronym as the search name) I came across this link http://home.att.net/~mike.bandor/megaterm/megaterm.htm It says there are 131,000 terms there for your perusal. It is setup as a windows help file tho. Hope this helps ------------------ Teutonicc The MEMBER Formerly Known as Teutonic [This message has been edited by Teutonicc (edited 07-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 10 cool points to someone capable of giving the correct words behind 'HFlaFüSys' - a late 80s Bundeswehr development that AFAIK was never implemented. But you gotta love the acronym. The only useful skill (apart from a truck driver's licence) that my military service gave me is the ability to figure out acronyms in very short time - except for any acronym in business school, they are just inane. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rollstoy Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 Heeresfliegerabwehrführungssystem?! Not too sure about the 'H', though! Regards, Thomm [This message has been edited by Rollstoy (edited 07-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rollstoy: Heeresfliegerabwehrführungssystem?! Not too sure about the 'H', though! Regards, Thomm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You get 9 out of 10 - impressive. Heeresflugabwehrführungssystem - a friend of mine was part of the software development system, they tried to integrate the 20mm AA guns and the Roland AA rocket launcher on Marder chassis. I don't think it ever went anywhere. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted July 21, 2000 Author Share Posted July 21, 2000 Ok, here's my list of acronyms I don't understand (I'm sure more will follow): AFAIK OT (seen in subject line of a couple messages) PF (having something to do with tanks?) HEAT (a type of ammunition) FLAK (a German gun manufacturer? or Anti-Aircraft gun?) Thanks! P.S. Teutonicc, I checked out that help file, thanks! But it seems many of the acronyms in there don't fit with how they're being used in here. BeWary ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. [This message has been edited by BeWary (edited 07-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>AFAIK<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As Far As I Know ... used to give them an excuse if they turn out wrong. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>OT (seen in subject line of a couple messages)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Off Topic ... used when the subject of the post is not directly related to Combat Mission. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>PF (having something to do with tanks?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Probably PanzerFaust ... though it might be Pissed Fionn if they got Fionn mad at them <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>HEAT (a type of ammunition)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> High Explosive Anti Tank ... an anti tank round that relied upon the high explosive rather than kinetic energy. Usually, AFAIK , a shaped charge weapon. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>FLAK (a German gun manufacturer? or Anti-Aircraft gun?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Again, AFAIK, a generic term referring to any anti-aircraft fire. It may have an actual meaning that I'm not aware of. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted July 21, 2000 Author Share Posted July 21, 2000 Cool, thanks Joe. I've seen a couple of messages that talk about shooting a FLaK (I believe they left the 'A' lower case) gun at a tank, so I was confused, as I thought FLAK guns were used to shoot at aircraft. Could they be referring to desparate (or simply clever) uses of a FLAK gun? Thanks again, BeWary ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Brizee Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 FLAK stands for Flieger Abwehr Kanone AntiAircraft Gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 Hey thanks Von Brizee, see you learn something new every day And yes Flak guns were commonly used against tanks and infantry. In fact the famous German 88 was originally an AA weapon that was used against tanks and later converted (in some of its versions) to a pure AT weapon. With their high rate of fire and better than average gunsights AA weapons could make formidable AT weapons. The grogs on the board can, I'm sure, give you chapter and verse on the subject. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeWary Posted July 21, 2000 Author Share Posted July 21, 2000 Von Brizee, I'm feeling really dumb here, but are you saying "Flieger Abwehr Kanone" means Anti-Aircraft Gun in German? If so, that's pretty cool. I never really thought about where that name came from. Joe, that's another one: grog. What is a grog/grognard? As a side question, in Saving Private Ryan, when the American soldiers are (rather stupidly it seems), all piling up on the German tank, and the Germans start firing a gun at them that rips them all apart, is that a FLAK gun? Sorry for dragging on this thread, but then again, it seems that most of you like to gab about this stuff. BeWary ------------------ "Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 Yes, Grog is just shorthand for Grognard, which is the commonly accepted term for those wargamers who REALLY know their stuff. Despite the fact that I've read military history all my life I'm a rank amateur compared to them. The term was originally applied to Napoleon's Imperial Guard, the so called Old Guard, who liked to grumble. Apparently (my French is as minimal as my German) the French term for Grumbler is ... Grognard! IIRC (there's another for you, If I Recall Correctly) from the movie, the gun was either a dual or quad 20 mm. Primarily intended for AA use though, as you could see, terribly effective against troops as well. You'll also see AA referred to as AAA for Anti Aircraft Artillery, though that's a more modern usage of the term. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamp Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 this could be good too http://www.acronymfinder.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sailor Malan Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BeWary: Von Brizee, I'm feeling really dumb here, but are you saying "Flieger Abwehr Kanone" means Anti-Aircraft Gun in German? If so, that's pretty cool. I never really thought about where that name came from. As a side question, in Saving Private Ryan, when the American soldiers are (rather stupidly it seems), all piling up on the German tank, and the Germans start firing a gun at them that rips them all apart, is that a FLAK gun? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just to clarify, yes, FLaK (to be boringly correct) is the German abreviation for anti-aircraft gun, and became the nickname for all anti aircraft fire in RAF, USAAF and sucessors (WW1 RFC/RAF it was called 'Archie', don't know why). I think you may not have picked up that Flak comes in two types, light and heavy. Light Flak is like a machine gun on steroids, automatic, sometimes multi-barrel, and in sizes from 20mm calibre ('shell' diameter), to about 40mm. This was the type of weapon on Saving Private Ryan. Effective against aircraft below 5000', and lethal against infantry, if they don't shoot the gun crew first. Can destroy tanks, but only from rear, lucky shots, or demoralising the crew. Heavy flak is generally single shot, rapid loading, high velocity artillery, in calibres from 75mm to 125mm or more. These have effective altitudes of 30000ft or more, but are noy much good vs low, fast targets. The two types tend to be used for different purposes, light flak for point defense, say an airfield, or units in the field, heavy flak for air defense of cities etc. In 1940, the German army dicovered that their main tank, and anit-tank gun (the 37mm, nicknamed 'doorknocker' by the Germans) was ineffective against heavy tanks such as Matildas and Char B1 bis. I don't know exactly when they first did it, but in France, during the Royal Tank Corps counter attack at Arras, which threatened to cut off their spear heads, one of the reasons why it withdrew was German 88mm Flak guns showed that they could kill Matildas. Since 88mm flak units were issues with armour peircing (solid) shot, I suspect this was always an intended secondary role. (The qualities that make a good heavy flak gun tend to make good AT guns, High velocity, good sights etc). By the desert war, the 88mm was in regular use as a heavy AT gun. I have never found out why the British 3.4" AA gun had no success in this role, on paper it should have done. It has been speculated it was due to reluctance of the AA regts to risk their guns, and place them under command of the local troops. It may also have had too high a profile (been too hard to hide) As an aside the 88mm was also a good bunker buster, I have seen a Maginot line fort near Colmar in Alsace, that has a turret on the roof. The 88mm shot is still where it hit, most of the way though what must be 3-4" of armour. It didn't quite get through, but this flaked off a limp of armour from the inner side of the turret that would have quite spoiled the crews day!) Sorry for rabbiting on... ------------------ The conception of such a plan was impossible for a man of Montgomery's innate caution...In fact, Montgomery's decision to mount the operation ...[Market Garden] was as startling as it would have been for an elderly and saintly Bishop suddenly to decide to take up safe breaking and begin on the Bank of England. (R.W.Thompson, Montgomery the Field Marshall) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 21, 2000 Share Posted July 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>(WW1 RFC/RAF it was called 'Archie', don't know why).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The story I recall was that early in the war an RFC pilot used to mockingly sing a then popular song called "Archibald, Certainly Not" when he was fired on by German AA. This caught on and was abbreviated to simply "Archie." Who knows if it's true Joe [This message has been edited by Joe Shaw (edited 07-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EScurlock Posted July 22, 2000 Share Posted July 22, 2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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