s bakker Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 I found this interesting read about defensive tactics and thought i might as well share with you guys. It’s a bit out of scope for CM here and there, but interesting from a tactical point of view. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ German tactics, Defensive, The defense of towns. Part I The Germans regard towns and villages as excellent strongpoints, particularly if the buildings are of masonry. Towns also are regarded as excellent antitank positions because of the considerable infantry-artillery effort necessary to neutralize them. In defending a town or village, the Germans locate their main line of resistance well within the built-up portion; the edges of the town, which provide easy targets for artillery fire, are believed to be too vulnerable. The main line of resistance is laid out irregularly in order to envelop flanking fire, and every effort is made to conceal its location until the last possible moment. Minor strongpoints are maintained forward of the line in order to break up attacks and provide additional flanking fire. Cul-de-sacs are organized and attempts are made to trap attacking forces in them for destruction by counterattacking mobile reserves. These reserves are kept in readiness within the town itself , but other reserve forces are held outside the town to prevent hostile flanking maneuvers. Both occupied and unoccupied buildings are booby-trapped in organizing the defended positions. Entrances to buildings are blocked, and all windows opened so as not to disclose those from which fire is maintained. Rooms are darkened and passages are cut in the walls between buildings. To avoid detection, the Germans fire from the middle of the rooms, and frequently change their positions, while communication is maintained through cellars and over roofs. Chimneys and cornices are used as cover for men on roofs; tiles may be removed to provide loopholes. Searchlights are mounted to illuminate fields of fire; in their absence vehicles headlights may be used as substitutes. When houses collapse, the defense is carried on from cellars, and rubble heaps of destroyed areas are organized as strongpoints. Tanks are considered to be ineffective within a defended town, although the Germans have used them in static, dug-in positions at cross-roads and squares. As a result of their experience on the Eastern Front, the Germans believe single tanks are too vulnerable to Molotov cocktails, magnetic mines, and explosive charges. When the Germans themselves use these antitank weapons, they employ them from foxholes dug outside the perimeter of the town. Efforts are made to destroy enemy tanks immobilized by antitank action, either within or outside the town, in order to prevent their recovery or use as artillery observations posts or machinegun nets. Antipersonnel mines are interspersed in antitank minefields because the attacking infantry are considered the chief menace. Assault guns may provide direct defensive support fire If attacking forces break through and disorganize the German positions. To secure the added protection afforded by masonry walls, the Germans may locate assault guns or tanks, within buildings and use them against hostile armored vehicles and infantry. Counterattacks, supported by assault guns or tanks, will not be withheld until the situation has become desperate ; indeed, surprise counterattacks may be launched at any time. For the defense of village strongpoints special battle commandants (Kampfkommandanten) are appointed. The battle commandant is usually the senior officer and the tactical commander of all military forces, emergency units, and civil organizations in his area. He has the disciplinary power of a regimental commander. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Give me some feedback whether you want to see part II or that this is not the place for this kind of literature. Grtz S Bakker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 Accurate period tactics are definitely welcome by those of us who want to recreate an era. May I ask the source? ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s bakker Posted February 10, 2000 Author Share Posted February 10, 2000 You may It's from 'Handbook on German Military Forces', nice reference for TO&E off late war german units (>44). And gives an american view of german tactics and strategies. 'Floreat Jerboa'; i'm curious what that means .... sounds Russian or Polish ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 ...or latin "Floreat" - (verb form) grow, thrive, flower, flourish. "Jerboa" - (noun) a small African desert rodent of the family Dipodidae, with long hind legs and great jumping power. Sometimes referred to as a "Desert Rat." ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 you typed all that by hand? You hav emore patience than I That was very interesting in theory....wonder how often they had that much time to prepare that throughly ------------------ CCJ aka BLITZ_Force My Hompage ----> http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj Double your immersion with my Tweaked Textures and Saving Private Ryan sound set mods for CM!! Check out my music while your there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kb9sog Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 These types of posts are always welcome. Keep bringing them in. ------------------ BJ Simpson Visit www.arrl.org for information about Ham Radio. IN HOC SIGNO VINCES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 Good post! Yes, this was the theory that it seems required quite a bit of time to set up. The interesting thing about much of the fighting in France was that it was too fluid for much of this sort of thing to happen. Earlier and later periods probably saw a lot of this, but the middle and end parts were amazingly fluid. As for the tactic of not maintaining forces in the outter set of buildings... man, I learned that the hard way a few times. Riesberg, as a matter of fact, is a perfect example. How many of you here kept the setup positions and found yourself taking massive casualties to the Shermans? The worse combo for the Germans in that scenario is missing the Shermans and a forward defense. Friendly body count mounts quickly after this happens. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Good post! As for the tactic of not maintaining forces in the outter set of buildings... man, I learned that the hard way a few times. Riesberg, as a matter of fact, is a perfect example. How many of you here kept the setup positions and found yourself taking massive casualties to the Shermans? The worse combo for the Germans in that scenario is missing the Shermans and a forward defense. Friendly body count mounts quickly after this happens. Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep, I learned the hard way too. You gotta suck in the attackers first instead of engaging them at town's edge. That increases the chances for ambushs and breaks up the LOS/LOF of the attackers that are still outside of the town. Of course, the risk to this is that if the attackers can get into the town's edge without heavy losses, then they've got good "jump-off" terrain to push further into the town. This hinges on the attacker's deployment & reserves. So if some hidden defending spotter unit can link to mortars or other indirect fire, make sure that these weapons will still make an open-ground approach to a town's edge a rough job. MG teams might be used too, but that's more of a judgement call to the exact situation. Yup, s bakker, some good stuff you've got. Keep it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 THAT is why one valid tactic for defending the town is to let the attackers enter it but make them have to fight a little to enter. Make them fight just enough so they're a little disorganised when they enter . THEN immediately counter-attack them with 2 or 3 platoons of infantry. Wipe out the American forward infantry echelon and it doesn't matter how much 60mm or HMG support they have.. They're not gonna enter the town unless they explode each and every single building with HE fire (and that takes too long). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterk Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 Jeeez. Couldn't you have posted this stuff BEFORE I set-up my forces for my first Reisberg game. And it's PBEM too - I'm in the process of getting drilled badly. I always tend to think "I'll set them up forward, see how it goes, and if it's too hot, I'll pull everyone back to the next set of buildings". It's amazing how often this backfires on me. Moving around too much on the defense is definitely something to be avoided. S.Bakker - +10 cool points for taking the time to post a relevant and interesting strategy article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 Peter, that used to be my strategy too. I used it in every wargame that I can remember when defending towns. Certainly what I always did in CC. Drill the attacking bastards in the fields from two floors up, wrack up an impressive body count, then run away and let them come to me. Trying that in CM doesn't work out so well when the attacker has armor/artillery support. In fact, when I tried this the first time I played Riesberg as the Germans the US 105s started raining down while I was in the middle of retreating (note I did not say pulling back ) back to better positions. This happened to Fionn in the Alpha PBEM game to. That REALLY hurts! Whatever men aren't lost outright you lose as panicked or at least beat up. Yesh... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 Don't feel bad Peter. When I played the Alpha AAR vs Moon that was about the first time that we'd either played such a big game and it was the FIRST time we'd either ever been on the receiving end of arty ( the AI didn't call down arty at that stage )... Anyways, my reactions to the arty barrage and its HORRIBLE effects on me ( let's just use the words "near panic" shall we ) are horrible to remember . I also learnt that you do NOT redeploy during the middle of an arty barrage. You simply take your punishment like a man and move once the barrage is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Also S Bakker Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 I'm glad we all have made the same mistakes The reason i looked up this kind of articles is because my men were tired of being mowed down. That gave me the impression i did something wrong . I promise to post the second part somewhere later this week and look up other relevant material for next week. Maybe it will lighten up our 'waiting time'a bit. Grtz S Bakker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 This raises the question: In scenarios where sufficient defensive set-up time is assumed/presumed/granted-as-manna, will there be any additional benefit to the occupier of at least some buildings? I'm thinking of those which have been loop-holed, sandbagged on the inside etc. ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 You'll find this and most of the other tactics stuff from the book on my website - www.gamesofwar.de Shameless plug? Nooo... Just some relevant research info for you guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Also S Bakker Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 Great moon ! That would spare me a lot of work ! Everybody check out his link! Grtz S Bakker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 Just adding my name to the list of people who have been spanked in Riesburg because of improper Defence... Bill... The first time I played that scen in was PBEM... I spread my forces out way to much and left them too far forward... Let's just say what the shermans didn't kill, the focused attacks from 2-3 platoons did... -EridanMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Sosaboski Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 S bakker, Good tactics! I will try them against the teachers of them on my next Last Defense battle ------------------ Sosabowski, 1st Pol. Abn. Yes, I know my name is spelled wrong as a member! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 Humm, S Bakker, good post! Peterk, hehe, better watch out.... Griffin @ work P.S. This is why I want CM runs on NT4...I can finish the turn during lunch time. Great fun, can't wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'm glad we all have made the same mistakes<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I am deeply offended by this statement I suggest it be rephrased: I'm glad some of us have made the same mistakes. I have always assumed CM is not "just another war game" and have played accordingly ie like real life. So far it's working out OK. Of course I wouldn't claim to be a tactical genius like Fionn ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goanna Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 Thanks Bakker. Maybe by the time the real game comes out, I will actually be dangerous if I keep reading posts like that one. Bracing for witty retort from previous enemies. ------------------ desert rat wannabe [This message has been edited by Goanna (edited 02-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterk Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 > Humm, S Bakker, good post! > Peterk, hehe, better watch out.... The advice is much too late to save you Griffin. p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted February 11, 2000 Share Posted February 11, 2000 Great post. Interesting to see how the Germans operated under such conditions. I can just imagine the fierce street fighting now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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