James Sterrett Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 This is the Red Commander's AAR for the game that Drew Slaggg set up and Redwolf eventually hosted, on Nov 9 2002. Red Players: We had a lot of players that came and went. My apologies if somebody goes missing from this list, and I'm pretty sure several have. 8( Goran Semb Dan Fraser Henk Stoffers Brian Oliver Redwolf Tim Harmon Macinlew Randy Martin Sgt Casey Mission: --------- Chief Freedom Fighter-- A little background on who you are and why you're doing this: As Leader of "Fighters for Freedom from Tyranny" or F4T you hold in your hands the future of every Man, Woman, and Child. Recognizing that the corrupt actions of a Western-based economic structure is bound to destroy all of civilization, you are determined to bring this economic tyranny to a halt through a series of actions. Your exploits lately include... (snip) However, three days ago, one of your high ranking officials was captured by Western Military Forces on the way to his mistress's home in Vierstadt. It was at first hoped that He was able to die honorably without divulging any information about your Family. Recent troop movements have proved otherwise. A large force of UN armor and troops was seen by a loyal informant travelling south on what could only be a path seeking your destruction. Your current HQ, located at Grid 1103, is the likely target. Terrain models suggest the likely axis of advance of the interlopers as approaching from the west. While the current makeup of the Enemy's force is unknown, several loyal witnesses have described endless lines of "many, many tanks and many large guns with very long barrels". Initial unit placement: No further West than Easting 11 No further North than Northing 04 HQ initial placement in Industrial Complex, vicinity of Grid 1103. HQ may be displaced to Dreistadt suburb, vicinity of Grid 139059, no sooner than 0715Zulu and no later than 0720Zulu. Thereafter, HQ displacement restricted to a 2km zone from initial placement. HQ displacement time restriction will only apply to when the displacement begins. Mission Objective: Prevent the capture/destruction of F4T HQ. Destroy the Infidels. Further the glory of F4T and spread your doctrine among the native civilian population. You may order the placement of 5 minefields, placement no further West than Easting 07. ------------- We were later assigned an extra mission: "A group of Foreign Dignitaries are in the area meeting with the local government. Government officials, upon hearing of the impending conflict, have requested your aid in the evacuation of the Dignitaries and government Officials. They have promised that when the safety of the evacuees is assured, any local forces available will aid you in the coming conflict. The evacuees will be awaiting pick up just West of Sechstadt, vicinity of grid 0501." We accidentally translated this into "they will be *in* the town", which may have cost us the pickup when we wasted time on trying to find them there. Planning: I broke the units into a set of task forces: Sterrett: no units TF South: 10 T-80U 20 BMP 30 infantry squads 8 infantry teams 9 AT-5 ATGM 20 PKM MG 7 AGS-17 2 motorbikes 3 trucks 2 SA-16 5 minefields TF North: 30 BMP 30 infantry squads 11 AT-5 ATGM 20 PKM MG 9 AGS-17 2 motorbikes 3 trucks 2 SA-16 TF Backstop: 21 T-80U 6 Leo 2A5 13 BMP 10 infantry squads 2 AT-5 2 AGS-17 10 PKM MG TF Recon: 8 BRDM-2 1 motorbike 9 infantry teams 4 PKM MG TF Rear: All logpacks Our Glorious HQ 4x ZSU-23-4 (will arrive after game start) 3x SA-16 18 infantry squads 10 trucks TF Artillery: All artillery and mortars (18 of each) Taskings... You'll note I have no units. That means I'm going to be completely dependent on you guys for news on our own situation. Please do take the time to report in during the turn exchanges. 8) I will see spotted enemy units, so you don't need to report them specially. If there's something of note about one, then please do bring it to my attention! TF Missions: TF South is responsible for the area south of 04 northing. Per prior discussion, attempt to push forward to discomfit the enemy, ambush and destroy their forces. TF North is responsible for the area north of 04 northing. Move northwards rapidly form the assembly area and deploy to defend. TF North and South should work out covering their boundary area. TF Backstop is the main reserve. It should deploy into our rear in backstop defensive positions. If the enemy air threat is either small or neutralized, then it should be ready to counterattack. TF Rear is responsible for air defence, rear area security, logistics, and final defence against an enemy attack. You are responsible for moving the HQ safely from its initial location to the alternate location at 139059. TF Recon should work out ahead of TFs North and South (might be a race in both cases) and try to suss out what the enemy is doing. Drop quiet observation posts and let us know how screwed we are, please. 8) At this time, I plan to take over TF Recon when David has to leave; chances are there will be little of it and less for it to do by that time. 8( This isn't the world's most detailed order, because we've been over a lot of this before. If any of you have questions or need further guidance, then please let me know; you've been left a lot of latitude intentionally but if you feel uncomfortable with that then I'll get more detailed. In addition, please post your planning to all of us so that we all know what each subunit is planning. It's my intent to get an ops overlay done this weekend, detailing various battle positions. Goran, if you can get your mine plan to me, I'd like to include the minefields on that. Everybody, if there are battle positions you feel you are particularly likely to use, let me know and I'll include them. ------------------ We were fairly worried about blue airpower throughout planning. Blue UAVs could have spotted artillery into our rear and Blue helos or airstrikes could soften us up. In the event, it turned out that Blue did irritate us with airpower, but not as we had envisioned. 8) What happened: First, we spent some six hours getting nowhere. People couldn't stay connected through the initial updates or the first turn. Eventually, frustration got to the point where the notion arose of either my or Redwofl's hosting the game instead. Redwolf became the host and things improved a great deal. The constant flux in players on our side meant frequent changes in command. Our TF North commander, Brian Oliver, had to go shortly before the game got moving for real; somebody (I forget who, I'm afraid) took over, but didn't have the planning for TF North. The TF moved out but neglected the 04/05 northing area. Just as the TF began to make contact, that player left and Henk Stoffers returned. On his earlier departure I'd taken over artillery, and with that figured out I figured it would be less disruption for Henk to take TF North. The upshot of all these changes: TF North moved out slowly, did not reach its areas in the time planned, and fought an initially confused battle. This was not helpful for us. 8) TF South had the same commander throughout the game (Goran Semb), but was working in conjunction with a brand-new TF Rear commander. TF Rear had been assigned the task of actually getting the dignitaries. We did, however, get our forces dropped into their battle positions and more or less deployed for defence. Meanwhile, Blue was surprising us by smoking the heck out of numerous locations in the far west. Turns out they had been told we would be there. I carefully refrained from artillery spotting rounds farther east, hoping to assist in whatever (then unknown to me) confusion was taking place.) Blue ran a really good recon battle. Small groups of tanks, PCs, and infantry slowly wormed their way forward and through our security positions and destroyed them, with much help from mortar fire. The fight went well enough for them that I occasionally wondered if fog of war was off for them! Full points to blue for this. 8) Blue also used its only two airstrikes of the day in recon attempts on our rear. The irritating thing Blue did with airpower involved the use of 4 Blackhawk helicopters which would move in, disgorge infantry from NOE in the orders phase, and then fly away safely. The counter for this, of course, was to have mortars ready to pound on the infantry thus dropped off, but it took a while for me to have that properly set up, and soon after I did the character of the battle changed. Blue periodically showed slightly larger forces, in the south, then the north, then the center. We'd about convinced ourselves that they had figured out our weakness in the center when a battalion or more began to appear in the south. TF South and Backstop hastily reorganized to stop this force, while the artillery prepared to stomp it; the tube artillery ammo had been carefully preserved awaiting such an opportunity - and better still, the enemy force was heading straight into a kill zone stoppered with a minefield. To our delight, the enemy bunched this battalion into an area the size of two 122mm splash zones and thus permitted me to play ICM all over it while our missiles and local infantry units worked over it as well, turning the small valley into a large barbecue grill. The fly in the ointment? First, some of our missile units had "pop smoke on firing" set, and vehicle smoke blocked thermals - and the range was such that the smoke promptly blocked the vehicle's own shot. Argh! This cost us, by my count, at least 20 missile shots. So some of the enemy force drove northeast out of the trap and started advancing into a forest which contained more of our infantry waiting to pop enemy vehicles with RPGs. Meanwhile, in the north, another enemy force appeared. Better coordination on Blue's part might have overwhelmed one flank or the other, but as the attack in the south moved out of LOS the one in the north moved into it, and the steel rain shifted north, again inflicting mass casualties. As this was going on, we hit the point of exhaustion for the Blue CO (Matt Ohlmer) and the game ended. Blue had a bit over two companies in the south of the map, and the better part of a battalion in the north. Our forces were chewing on those in the south and TF Backstop was moving to counter the threat in the north (which was also under the steel rain of ICM.) Blue's mission turned out to have been to capture our HQ with minimal losses, specified in debrief as 10-20%. Loss stats from the end (note that the Red loss stats include 30 BMP, 30 infantry, 10 AT5, 9 AGS17, 2SA16, and 20 PKM MGs that were never in the game: TF North disappeared at one point (rated "dead" by the game) and was added back in) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Blue Status: UNIT START NOW ELIM EXITED Tank, M1A1D..................... 116 49 67 0 Inf, Scout Team................. 28 19 9 0 ATGM, Javelin Team.............. 72 57 15 0 APC, M3 Bradley CFV............. 28 10 18 0 Mortar, Carrier 120mm M1064..... 30 30 0 0 Howitzer, SP 155mm M109......... 6 6 0 0 APC, M113....................... 8 8 0 0 Inf, Team....................... 104 91 13 0 Helo, UH60 Blackhawk............ 4 2 2 0 Logistics Package............... 20 19 1 0 Truck, Cargo 5t M923............ 6 5 1 0 FAASV, Arty Ammo Supply Veh M992 3 3 0 0 APC, M2 Bradley IFV............. 104 51 53 0 Inf, Sniper Team................ 2 1 1 0 RECV, SpPz Fennek............... 4 4 0 0 ATGMV, JgPz Jaguar 1 HOT........ 4 2 2 0 APC, SPz Marder 1A3............. 14 10 4 0 ATGM, PzAbwTrp Milan............ 5 5 0 0 Inf, PzGrenGrp.................. 9 7 2 0 Tank, KPz Leopard 2A5........... 14 8 6 0 Civil, x1 Dignitary............. 5 5 0 0 Civil, x1 Government............ 10 10 0 0 Force Lethality Value, Start: 34334 Force Lethality Value, Now: 20677 Casualty percentage: 39 Force Lethality Ratio, Start: 1.5:1 Force Lethality Ratio, Now: 1.6:1 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Red Status: UNIT START NOW ELIM EXITED APC, BRDM2...................... 6 0 6 0 Inf, Team....................... 14 9 5 0 Inf, MG 7.62mm PKM Team......... 73 34 39 0 LUV, Motorcycle................. 7 0 7 0 ATGMV, BRDM2 Spandrel........... 9 0 9 0 APC, BMP2 IFV................... 93 20 73 0 Tank, T80U...................... 31 23 8 0 Inf, Squad...................... 118 65 53 0 Inf, AGL AGS17 Team............. 27 15 12 0 Tank, KPz Leopard 2A5........... 6 6 0 0 ATGM, AT5 Spandrel Team......... 33 16 17 0 Howitzer, SP 122mm Type83....... 18 18 0 0 Mortar, SP 120mm 2S9............ 18 18 0 0 SAM, SA16 Gimlet................ 9 5 4 0 Truck, Cargo 6mt................ 19 15 4 0 AAA, SP 23mm ZSU-23-4........... 4 4 0 0 Inf, HQ Command................. 1 1 0 0 Logistics Package............... 10 10 0 0 Force Lethality Value, Start: 22476 Force Lethality Value, Now: 12927 Casualty percentage: 24 Force Lethality Ratio, Start: 1:1.5 Force Lethality Ratio, Now: 1:1.6 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Point results: Blue Attrition Points - 5527 Red Attrition Points - 13661 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Lessons learnt: Blue's losses had soared in the period of the assault, given the units bunched up under artillery in both north and south, and were on track to continue to do so. The game was judged a Red win. Blue figures it did pretty well given the correlation of forces, which is true; but they had enough force to keep us pretty worried the whole time! Three mistakes on Blue's part: - Stopped the recon battle early. This, apparently, they had no choice about. The recon battle was very well done by Blue, and we were losing it. - Bunching up in the face of our artillery, which cost them them a lot of losses. - Arguably, and paradoxically in light of the bunching problem, insufficient concentration. They had some 230-250 combat vehicles to our ~150 AT systems (remember, 30 of the BMPs and 10 of the AT5s listed in the charts above never existed) , and were adept at leveraging their helos into placing Javelins within firing range of our defences to snipe at our vehicles. Had all of their weight come against one of our flanks, and kept pressing forward at speed while maintaining adequate dispersion, we'd have been shattered. Mistakes on Red's part: - Fear of deep air activity led us to over commit air defence in the depths; it was needed at the front. I was not speedy in repairing this error once spotted. We overestimated how effective our AD fires would be against Blackhawks, which survived an awful lot of fire once we finally did get them in our AD's sights! - Disruption surrounding the replacement of the TF North commander made us critically weak in the center, on the boundary between TFs North and South. Trying to compensate for this without moving TF North, by using lines of fire to the south, led us to leave it heavily committed into a small space in the north where it was pounded with artillery. - Better understanding of the dignitaries goal would have meant we could reorient to use more force in the area and accomplish that objective. We mostly blew the objective off, in the end. - Improper use of pop-when-fire SOPs cost us numerous missile shots around the map, especially in the south. In the north, Blue apparently was most entertained by its ability to shut down our missile shots with its own smoke shots. Part of the answer to the latter is artillery, but during the recon battle I rarely had a target worth shelling. - We needed to have thought more clearly about interlocking the AT fires of our forward strongpoints so that each protected the other and also protected the infantry eyes; and still allowed for maneuver to avoid artillery retaliation. We also needed to be more willing to pull back from our most forward positions and lure blue forward into killing zones. Lessons on running the game: Well, the lesson is stick it out. Eventually the problems cleared up! More technical lessons are probably for someone else to explain, but I'm realizing I really do need to make a v4 CPX FAQ, since the v3 and prior version is completely out of date for these new style games. [ November 10, 2002, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: James Sterrett ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 "technical umpire" remarks. Although we cleared Slagg's hosting problems earlier that week in the sense that he could now host at all it turned out that for reasons unknown this didn't work out with many players. Players could join him but the game would just not run through the orders and situpdate exchanges. As TacOps and the Macintosh has zero capability of remote debugging no direct help could be offered. At a certain point in time player's morale was down and having seen a few network CPXes I knew everyone and their dog would leave really soon now. So we came up with somebody else hosting Slagg' savegame and it ended up being me (I had previously run the Red tank and anti-tank reserve). The game got underway technically and Slagg and me did run the game in a mode where he was the "owner" of the scenario and I was doing the techical hosting. I did all the stuff around player dropping and rejoining, PIN reassignments, running combat phase, giving pauses when neccessary and when not drive the game forward relentlessly. Slagg still was in charge of the scenario. He observed (and hence could see most things) and he would handle the normal game-master stuff, all requests by players to umpires which were not purely technical went through him and he would tell me what to change. I wouldn't say this is an ideal way to run a TacOps game or even that the dividing of the work was extremly useful. However, it certainly worked. Slagg was still running his scenario and he could get off all that network crap and TacOps mechanics fiddling. The only time where I felt uncomfortable was at the end of the game where Slagg was changing the times for orders and the length of the combat phase to one and two minutes, respectivly. The Blue force ad player structure was clearly incompatible with that, in the scenario design. I could clearly see that, as I was running the umpire machine and hence could see everything and I studied the issue of player load in TacOps4 a little (see my old so far ignored mail to the TacOps list . I followed Slagg's orders and changedd the game to 1+2 minutes, however I couldn't resist recommending to the commanders that they should bang on Slagg to revert to 2 minute order phases, which they did. The game ended soon after anyway. I am not quite sure the length of the order and combat phases is the business of the scenario designer or the technical host. In theory it is clearly the scenario designer, but in practice I found that judgement is needed which only the (technical) umpire's machine would allow to draw. [ November 10, 2002, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 What makes a CPX a good CPX? IMO the fun of CPXes comes from 5 areas, The Planning, Team Ops, The Battle , the Scenario and the Lessons Learned. In four of those five aspects yesterdays CPX - umpired by Slagg with tech help from Redwolf - excelled, making it one of the best CPXes I ever had the chance to participate in: I was the BLUEFOR XO during the planning stage of our operations, and as our CO John Osborne had to drop out on short notice due to RL quests, I then assumed command and acted as CO during the battle. 1. Planning We got a good headstart with the planing phase to the actual CPX, as about two weeks before that stage recruiting had finished and we got our briefing of the umpire. The scenario would be played out on map 541 would see Blue with a mixed US/German formation vs Red as an international terrorist organisation with unknown OOB. The briefing was kind of sparse, it had some background on the terrorist organisation named "F4T", an OOB, two spotreps from SOF teams and a few satellite photos: >Initial unit setup will be limited to the following area: >No further East than Easting 03 >No further South than Northing 07 > >High probablility of Air support >Artillery will have access to HE, ICM, and Smoke rounds > >Mission Objective: To capture the OPFOR HQ (location: vicinity >of Grid 1103) with minimal loss of life/equipment. Prevent destruction of >civilian infrastructure. Ensure safety of all native civilians. Clear >towns Einstadt, Zweistadt, and Sechstadt of all OPFOR units. > >Please find attached the OOB for your force. Barring any flashes of genius, >this is it. I've also attached the OOB for 'My' Civilians. Don't hurt em, >they won't like it. My giving you the Green OOB equates to intel on the >region, satellite images, etc. > >OOB >2 x Armored Panzer Bns (4 x coys) a total of 116 panzers. >Recon of 12 M3 Bradleys w/12 scout teams >4 x UH60s >1 x 155 SP Battery >12 x Mortar carriers >a German PzGr Company. The satellite photos were an interesting twist to bear in mind for future scenarios, umpire had worked on them in Photoshop to make them "low quality", and they always showed only a little area which we had to puzzle together to find out what they shwoed where. Take a look at them at: cpxpix If you cklick on them it will show what they looked like originally, the thumbnails are bigger...:-> This is the sat shot of the objective in 1103, the F4T Headquarters, nice twist the blinding of the lens by the lights...:->: cpxpix The SpotReps (NOTE: coordinates are OFF MAP): SPOTREP (Source: Seal Team Bravo OP) 1700 hrs Grid 027043 4 Leopard tanks 2A6s 1 122mm SP Howitzer, Orientation North Heading South towards Einstadt, lights out Continuing to observe Out SPOTREP (Source: Ranger Team Kilo OP) 0230 hrs Grid 029021 2 BMP1 2 Trucks, .5mt 4 Trucks, 6mt 4 Trucks, Tanks Transports, trailers unloaded Heading West, lights out Continuing to observe Out So, we were set, we did not know much but stated evaluating rapidly. First, we found out that the map in use, 541, has some very strange uncharted terrain features, rough in seemingly clear terrain and clear woods, parts that were shown as roads were in fact no roads but rough 2. So, first thing we set out to produce an overlay with the correct terrain and BattlePositions numbered all over the map which during preparation and battle proved extremely useful, making comms a piece of cake. For a look at it: cpxpix, the parts with the strange terrain are marked with arrows and encircled (Alex?) In conference with the CO we established the problems we were facing with the intel and the OOB (enemy was known to have Leos 2A6 and BMP1s). - W/o an idea about enemy ADA we cannot set up a rapid strike package to capture the HQ (it says "capture", not "destroy") w/o running the risk of a "Blackhawk down" situation. - Enemy Tanks cannot be attacked from front or side by the major part of our force, so knowing where they are is vital. - Our Force seems fairly big and sluggish for such an Operation, we have a lot of armor but almost no manpower (12 inf teams). - We are lacking infantry and troops with telescopic aided sights (snipers or recon) to take out enemy OPs and do proper recon So, a list of requests was made to the umpire (see: incl the answers) > >> Slaggg, > >> Request more info in Sat image data revealing ADA capabilities. Also sat image on F4T HQ at grid 1103. > > the one .bmp file I sent, "Sat Image 3", is a shot of the HQ. Info on ADA on the way > >> > >> Request all info from intel sources on police and civilian data to find > >out > >> where possibly enemy positions are located. > > On the way. > >> > >> Request grid location of the OP Teams and if we can control them. > > Negative. OP teams will extract prior to start of operation > >> > >> As we are confined in a small area at between grids 03 Easting and 07 > >> Northing. Are we to assumed that the town of Zweistadt is clear of enemy > >> forces or are we entering at that grid location and have to clear that > >town? > > It is 'assumed' that it Zweistadt is clear. Confirmation required. Then, a new OOb was submitted, now with a mixed mech (M2s) and armor force, and the VCs specified (we had asked what "Capture" meant vs. "Destroy": > I've also attached the OOB for 'My' Civilians. Don't hurt em, >they won't >like it. My giving you the Green OOB equates to intel on the >region, >satellite images, etc. > >The win conditions for Blue are: >>The capture of the enemy HQ vic 1103 within 120 minutes. >That is, if you've eliminated all enemy units from within 2km of the HQ, and >your force surrounding the HQ seems sufficient to repel any enemy efforts to >regain the HQ. >The destruction of the enemy HQ won't result in a win. If that happens the >win condition will change to whoever beats the snot out of the other side >wins. On this basis we did the planning. Right from the start we had figured, that sporting Leos 2A6 for the terrorists would be an expensive experience, while very strong and impenentrable by our tanks from side or front the system is around 20 Millions $ each, so, even with funds like Al Chaida (300 Millions) this would only mean max BN strength against us, probably with a lot of inf ATGMs. Of the BMP1s we were not so afraid, as we outreached them with our M2s and their saggers could not take our M1s from the front, our few leos not even fro the side. Still, a formidable opponent when you dont know anything about deployment or intentions (enemy could be everywhere; we figured there must be some reason for all the background info on the recent bombings in Germany and expected either bombs in the cities or even ABC type of weapons from the terrorists, the latter was later excluded by umpire) After a week a plan had formed: You can see the detailed OPORD, under cpxpix , a graphic showing the plan as a sum of our overlays under cpxpix Basically, we decided to put the focuzs on recon to find out about enemy deployment and strenght and only strike at the HQ at the very last moment when enemy could not react anymore. For this purpose we had redistributed our forces so that they formed three Task Forces, one for the NOrth (TF1), one for the South (TF2) and one, around the Germans for the center (TF GE). Thos ef orces were screened and lead in terain by two recon forces (Recon 1 and 2), small strike forces all bythemselves. The idea was to advance TF1 and TF2 stealthily to a point where they could start a charge against the HQ at 1103 until 0830, using the TF GE to "dance around the battlefield and distract and confuse enemy as to our intentions and their strength. About 48 hours before battle another mission of "untmost importance" was added, thge extraction of some government people that wanted to defect from vic 0501 (Objective B in the plan graphic). At the same time we were told that we could get a bigger set up box (AA 2 on the plan graphic) and were ensured enemy had no LOS into it at game start. The latter allowed us to assume areas clear of enemy that we had not before, which allowed us to speed up deployment a lot and to shift the entire center operation farther to the EAST, which is how we proceeded in the game. Here is the associated FRAGO that changed the plan according to the new situation: cpxpix 2. Team Play There is nothing more rewarding during the plannig stage and during battle in a CPX than to be part of a great team meet that comments vividly on everything and is devoted and high spirited during the whole process. Well, Blue this time definitely had such a team: CO was John Osborne from US, TF 1 commander was Wazza from Australia, TF 2 commander was Berny from France, TF GE commander was Wolfi from Germany, Recon1 commander was GoatChomper from US, Recon2 commander was Jeff intitially, when he had to leave due to RL reasons, Jingo from the US took over, I had the Support. Everybody in this team went to or even beyond his limits, in planning as well as in sandboxing and then later in battle where everybody performed flawless. As an example I want to mention Jingo here, who, a newbie to TacOps, IRC and CPXing joined the team late, but with a lot of effort got to speed really quick through a truely steep learning curve and did an extraordinary job commanding his unit in the battle. 3. The Battle After the intial 4 hours of tech problems redwolf jumped in to host and the game finally got underway (big applause to redwolf here, a very smoothe operator with such a monster of 14 players!!!). By this time we had lost one player, Recon1 commander, so I took the unit together with the arty. Here I have to say that it is probably much better for a CO to have none or little units only, as he should be IMO have time to keep in the big picture and take the time to explain it to the players to adjust the overall friendly situation. In our case, because the team knew what to do and everybody needed little guidance fro some minor adjustments, also because communications went smoothe, concise and effective, I just about managed (40 units alltogether), but was pushed to the limit of my attention envelope which later in the game led to not having the supply packs close enough to my mortar units in time. (TF GE had no certain course and had to react to the things we encountered which required a lot of decisions, so Wolf and I got on the telephone between turns to clarify new intentions, etc. This worked well, Wolfgang did an outstanding job). Once the batlle got off, it was real super fun, very interesting, a nice buildup and a full timeworthy experience. The decision to push the center action farther EAST right from start was worth gold, within minutes TF GE reached Objective B and started extracting them, with only marginal losses, first mission complete. Recon 1 and TF 2 cooperated perfectly, recon 1 had all critical OPs cleared precisely at the time when this TF had to cross a hill on around Easting 05 (BP93/94) and in the center and north Recon 2 was ploughing a way to allow TF 1 to advance far EAST w/o being spotted. Problems started when more and more enemy units appeared in the woods vic 0907 (BP8) and we had to start clearing them off bit by bit in a slow apporach by pushing the sniper team of TF1 to where it could gide arty and then hammering away on them. The problem had been anticipated, and while it forced TF 1 to go to defialed an not move, we had planned ample time to clear this critical BP by giving us max 80 minutes to get the job done. Gradually we kept chewing away any red units that appeared there and at around minute 50 had achieved it almost clear. TF2, otoh, was not so lucky. Berny had been frequently disconnected (I think he was more time disconnected than playing) and had little control over what was happening in detail. So, it occured that his units started firing repeatedly on some inf that was in smokie and not seeing them and so gave away his basic position (we had planned to have the ranges of both TF1 abd 2 to be 500 so this should not happen, but obviously something had gone wrong). Under stress then Berny advanced much too fast with his TF EASTwards, he would have had time enough for a slow sstealthy approach (45 minutes left to make 2.5 km) by stopping his units and extending them into a long column while having the snipers go on foot to where they could find observers (the plan had the TF advance stealthily llike the northern one, pressing that stealth preceded speed) As a result his whole TF got compromised around 08E and came unter a heavy ICM barrage (they go supressed and were in rough terrain, = 1/4 speed, so they could never escape the focus of this attention again). In the second vollea the snipers that had dismounted this moment wer ekilled by ICM and the TFs eyes gone. Also at this moment umpire changed the orders time from 2/1 to 1/2, meaning that Berny did not manage to get control of his huge force and they piled up even more (the first got supressedn and slowed in rough, the later ones advanced unsuppreseed over clear right into the mess). This destroyed TF 2, he had 50% losses within 5 minutes or so. Also, it had compromised the whole plan, as the attack on the HQ was planned to come from two or three axis at the same time in coordination, and now the southern axis got hammered. In this situation, and after confering with my teammates,I decided to charge on the other axis as well to make use of the arty being focussed in the south and try to get TF1 into a good postion before it would have the same fate as the southern With only one minute to order (we had lost another player and everyone had to command between 50 and 70 units) there was no way we could re-group in a coordinated way and follow the plan any further. Because the charge came much earlier as anticipated, arty was not really prepared to support it and went in with low acc and 4 out of 7 batteries out of ammo (no time to get the logpacks to the units at that moment, with 50 units to order and 1 minute orders time). Tis went well for about 4 minutes, but then red arty reacted and focussed on the northern TF as well, precisely in the right moment when it was buched up in the woods. By this time, and with a feeling we could not reach the HQ anymore with minimal losses as ordered, we decided to call it a day. We had been 14 hours in fromt of the computers, and the fun was beginning to get replaced by aches in many parts of my body...:->. In the briefing tunred out that we had not fared too bad in the attack and with our momentum (TF south had regrouped and GE was advanicng strongly in the center) we would have probably made to where we were told the HQ was (only problem: it was not here...) OTOH, Red hade made perfect use3 of its forces and deefended flawless, so it could possibly have been an outcome even worse for us. We had been on the road to victory for quite some time during the game (and feeling it) and had it not been for the bad luck of TF2 and the aprupt change of working conditions upon a team in the attack (= double effort than defense) and overwhelmed already with tasks I am sure we would have won. Even losing, seeing the whole team perform so well and the single elements of the overall force work together so perfectly and with almost no friction (best I have ever seen in a CPX) was an experience in itself, well worth the time. 4. The Scenario To be frank, I think the scenario was, um... disappointing, at least from my POV. I know Slagg put in quite some effort and I am the first to encourage him to go ahead and provide us with more scenarios (In my first two scenarios I goofed bigtime, so I know the feeling), but I cannot help but feel it was flawed and had no inner red thread or theme: - In the debrief we found out we had been up against an MRR. No Leos 2A6, and no BMP1s, btu plenty of BMP2s , T80Us and Leo 2A5s. Now, while I am the first to admit that I had completely forgotten during game to come to a decision what exactly we were facing (we were still in the recon phase when we suddenly had to charge), this simply does not go together with the terrorist organisation we were looking to battle, nor with the spot reports or sat shots we were provided as intel. Slagg argued, well, INTEL must not always be correct, and that surely is true and might make a nice scenario by itself, but then the environment or the VCs should have been diffeent IMO, as we were in a no-win situation against such a force right from start (1.5:1 as attackers vs defenders with 218 inf observers all nicely split up and distributed over the eastern half of the map, we lost more vehicles to inf than to the ICM barrages). What I mean, when setting up a task that a commander cannot win, then either you should give him the means to change that (I had requested snipers for recon, this + arty could have made up, even with less tanks and stuff, might have been very interesting), or you should change the VCs so that e.g. to understand that you cannot win and therefore better withdraw or contain enemy would be the decision to be rewarded. - in the debrief we found out the HQ was nowhere near we had been told or shown on the satellite photo. This means even if we wouldhave reached our objective, we would have been back to square one w/o even knowing where the objective might have been. I dont see the sense in giving such false intel and then keep the VCs at the same level as with correct intel. If such a situation was wanted by the umpire, which would be ok all by itself, then he should e,g, have provided us with means to react to the situation, i.e. by heliborne recon forces in a helo frindly environment (we had helos, but against 9 SAM 16 in the rear where your arty does not reach its suicide to use them) - the intel was presented to us as a sort of puzzle, in bits and pieces, the pictures changed so that you could not get real information (I worked 3 hours in photoshop to make partial force type and strenght identification), the background story about the bombings, etc, this lets you assume as team that you should get the pieces together and form assujmptions based on them (another great idea for a scenario). Of cause we jumped on that and tried it only to find that in the debriefing Slagg said it was just an ficitional story, and not important at all. We, OTOH had been grossly mislead by the way the intel was provided and had e.g. assumed that a force over a BN could not be financed by terrorists... Hmmm. Why provide a not important story, if it is not important? In a CPX (and any other game, I gues) you always assume that the things you are presented with are of importance, and finding out that you devoted time and energy on something not important is a bit of an anti-climax. - When the mission change was announced (which in itself again is ok, did that as well in scenarios) I as acting CO was confronted with contradicting requests by Higher and voiced my concerns: >OTOH, we have no concrete intel about enemy deployment, nor about whether >we can employ our helos w/o have them shot down (for the AAR: Still think >that doesnt fit well with the story with the terrorists being in Germany, >our terrain, as a RL commander I would refuse the job on that basis and >make sure my concerns are noted, especially whith so many conflicting >requests that Higher has: Either you want a job done, or you want to >preserve forces or you want to restrict use of force. All three together, >w/o INTEL, is calling for disaster a la Vietnam, and bound to fail in RL at >least in one aspect, if nt in all three). Slagg answered: >Now you're understanding what I'm attempting to model here. Fine, I like the basic concept, every good novel piles problem after problem on the protagonist and thats what makes them interesting to read. But, if you want to model such a conflicting situation, you should adjust the VCs to it as in a TDG (making the right decisions gets rewarded) or at least try to get a coherent story environment which allows us desktop warriors to get into the situation and react according to the info that you give us, roleplay...( Not sure, if I can make myself understood here, reaching the limits ofmy English here) For example, having to evac the govs was not welcome but something you might expect in RL as in a CPX. Also, the idea that the civilians would turn hostile if they got taken over by red was a neat idea. BUT: We had originally planned to let them go with red (as we had to belive you were in the osuzthern town, much clser to them than we and I did not want to commit piecemeal) and snatch them back on the way out, one of the (I believe) correct decisions I made in the conflicting situation. Point is, it would not have been rewarded had we not been lucky (Also, I think for game balance it would have been intereting to have the civvies go hostile against red after we sntched them) Still, we had fun, and this is probably what counts most...:-> 5. Lessons Learned - First, and always the biggie, dont assume!!! It has happened to me again despite having written that so often :-O... Assuming you face a BN sized force only to find out in debriefing it was a regiment, is... bad. - Recon, Recon, Recon! We did overall well in this aspect this time, but still were too fast in the south. - Overlays with BPs are great tools if they are done right and used well. Ours was, i think, and it did serve us extremely well during preparation, planning and the battle - Comms are a multiplier if they work well: One of the things that worked best were comms during the game, everybody was callling in his spotreps, his arty requests, and so on, in a concise and unagitated way. Also, everybody paid attention to IRC every turn. Smoothest CPX ever in this regard, great help (even if I could type to one channel only as I had switched playing to the laptop and needed the mouse of the other mac to get any speed ingiving orders) - Touch pads are crap if you try to play in a high speed environment (see above) - CPXes tire... I slept full 12 hours after that one...:-> Anyway, thanks to all for a great two weeks and a great battle! Rattler, Blue CO (acting) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingo Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 The CPX was an interesting experience. I had never done anything quite like it before. I was the commander of Recon2 on BLUEFOR. The worst part of the CPX was all the techincal garbles and snarles that seemed to keep surfacing for the first four hours or so. Towards the 4th hour of this, I was inches away from powering off my computer with a large fist. :mad: But I refrained since I had put a lot of work into getting myself as ready as possible (had maps printed out at 200% size hanging on my walls with routes and BPs circled) in a short time and decided to stick it out. Eventually we finally got going. And the fun began. While the waiting in between turns was interminable at times, it gave us valuable time to comm back and forth with our CO and synchronize our efforts. I didn't have two monitors like some players did and instead installed an "agent" that works with mIRC to convert text to voice. This was invaluable since I didn't have to continually toggle back and forth to find out my orders. I could ignore other orders but when I heard "Jingo," from Rattler I knew I had to pay attention. I was only able to stay about 30 turns or so. But at 5 mintutes a turn that was considerable time. I had only planned on staying for 6 hours and it was slowly turning into 10 hours at about 30 turns and my wife and kids were wondering when I was going to surface. So apologies at having to jump out. I really did want to stick it out.. The beauty of the CPX for me was that I was transported. It was fun to hear the computerized "voice" of my CO directing our movements and at times I truly felt the "stress" of decision making as the time ticked down during the orders phase (I don't know how you TF1, 2, and GE folks did it!). I had never played multi-player TacOps with a orders time limit before that (other than a short game with Slaggg the day before the CPX to practice some). There were moments of frustrations when I couldn't get a Bradley's SOP to change in time and had to wait and see what would happen for the next turn. That was the hardest part for me: trying to keep things flowing smoothly, especially since I started off so slow. I had misinterpreted some of the intel we had received and was moving too catiously as I was expecting enemy prescense around easting line 6-7. The CO told me to step on the gas, and I did my best to speed up, and once I got going things then got bogged down when we encountered enemy presence around BP 22, 9, and 10 (easting line 8 - 10). I was able to clear part and then contain REDFOR units in BP 22. I was was told to keep them from spotting TF1 hiding in the forest at BP 6. My recon units made it to BP 50, BP 34, BP 51, BP 23 before I finally had to quit. I enjoyed having a CO that I could turn to who was both responsive and clear and consise in our objectives. It was nice to know if I ran into some trouble I had some big tank groups 'somewhere' behind me. And all I had to do was what I was ordered to and leave the consternation about the big picture up to the higher ups. That was what the CO is for, right? Lessons Learned: * Speed is essential. I could improve on that. * Knock out observers soon. I felt I did pretty good at this. Those observers I came across were quickly dispatched by Bradley MG fire. * Team Work. For example I had some units in the town at intersection C and enemy BMPs in the forest at 75 were sending missle fire up to my units attempting to cross the clear area. I relayed the info and TF GE was able to clear the area and I was able to proceed. * When approaching enemy territory dismount and proceed on foot. While this is slower you won't lose valuable armoured units. I made that mistake when our CO told me to move into 51 and 23 from m safety of the forests. I had proceeded a few hundred yards when an ATGM took out my brad. Recon in situations like that with Recon Inf units first. * Communicate! We did very good at this I thought and it was one of the immersive fun parts of the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 Regarding order time limit: nobody expects you to get so fast with clicking orders that you can do everything in the time you have. There is a whole new element of what a player has to master and that is to make a proper priority list of what has to be done first. This is totally missing from a no-timeout game. The next step is to give even priority units you visit orders which are good for more than one turn. So that next turn you can visit other stuff and not be screwed when you don't come around to them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Sterrett Posted November 12, 2002 Author Share Posted November 12, 2002 Nothing to add to Redwolf's comments in most respects - they mirror what I'd post up. Just to note that I'm a big fan of tight time limits, both as a player and as an umpire; IMO the fact that we are are forced to think ahead (plotting for multiple turns, prioritizing tasks) is fun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 I am a big time of time limits as well, my problem is to find out what thed appropriate setting are for a given situation: Take this CPX: I had the arty, those are units that (require( attention every turn, aslo are so vital they are the first itmen on the list. Next came the helos, in the role used as a relive package they, too, require attention every turn. Then come the combat units, they are third on the list and you can give them orders ahead and only have to attend every now and then 8or you give them one order: Move East! by drag selecting all over a certain part of the map). Last there are the arty observers and the logistics units, those you will only have to check out every five turns or so as the have fairly long term orders. Still, in the one minutes orders time it was hard already to make it to the helos, only now and then I made it to the combat units. Like this then any ccordination is lost quickly and the game falling apart. As an umpire I try to sense such moments and give players a break ( a little more time every now and then to allow everybody to take a breath, regroup mentally and the smokers to light). I think there is a balance required between forcing the players to prioritize and think ahead and giving so little time that you end up in a simple shootout w/o much tactics left. My 2c Rattler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 If you want to do 1 minute orders and 2 minutes action than your scenario must have automatic or no resupply or there must be a player exclusivly for dragging the supplies around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Sterrett Posted November 12, 2002 Author Share Posted November 12, 2002 Not necesarily. As CO, I had artillery, logistics, air defence, and a bunch of random infantry teams. Artillery, of course, had priority and I could usually get through its fires, even at the height, in about 1/2 to 3/4 of the time I had. For a while, logistics had the next priority, until I decided I was safe from CB and lumped all the logpacks with the firing batteries. (Thought this introduced another coplication later when our mortars ran out of ammo and neded to move to the logpacks; I moved them as they ran out of ammo, so this was spread out.) Resupply of arty ammo became a priority as and when batteries came close to running out of ammo. Moving the air defence came nxt, as and when I had new ideas on plans to nail those ehlicopters. In and around this, I plopped the infantry in new locxations to better provide last ditch defence of our HQ. A lot of this involved knowing what was important and what needed to happen next. It'sa true that with units in frequent (they were in occasional) combat I'd not have had enough time unless I sequenced things better: combat units begin moving up, then arty prep gets put on target and started; then the combat units move out, and so on. As it was I was petty ad hoc about sequencing after dealing with artillery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goran Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Goran, commanding Task Force South -- one tank company and two BMP companies: A lot of planning went into this one, which is a good thing IMO -- I like games (and scenarios in games) where you can ”take the game with you”, so to speak, without having to take the game with you. Just taking a few minutes off now and then to ponder a situation and your alternative courses of action. The boardgame “Advanced Third Reich” is another such game where one can spend lots of time in-between actually playing the game, thinking about what to do. …Of course, in my case, the result of all this planning is often a failed strategy, but at least I had fun planning it... Fortunately, in this case, I had the aid of CO James who helped out with comments and suggestions. Originally, I had planned my part of the defense slightly further east, expecting -- or rather, fearing -- a gung-ho advance by Blue which I was afraid might catch me too far to the west without adequate cover for retreating (something I tend to have problems with in “defend in depth” scenarios vs the computer). As it turned out, this wasn’t much of a problem, and moving the main weight of my defense a kilometer or to two the west at James's suggestion worked OK. It was probably necessary, too, to bring my forces more in line with the Northern defense. I can’t say all that much about what the other parts of our little army did, though, since I tunnelvisioned a bit on my own part of the map. (After a while, when I felt I had a good handle on how things really looked down south, I would have had the time to check out the rest of the map, except that but by then it was so late at night that I simply didn’t have the energy.) In order to gain some time and territory, I intended move out about two BMP platoons a bit further than the rest of my forces. If they didn’t show a lot of enemy activity, perhaps I could move out my boys a bit further, to give us more depth, but I didn’t really believe that would happen. At least, I could use them to put out observation/ambush posts along the way to their forward positions. As we also sent out recon forces, perhaps this was unnecessary and merely sacrificed those guys in vain, but I at least wanted to hold Sechstadt to perhaps entice Blue into bombarding it -- thus making the civilian population more likely to intervene on our side. As Blue turned out to be very aware of this danger, and highly disciplined, it didn’t happen, but I still think it was worth a try. Anyway, this left me with a bunch of infantry guys, 15 BMPs, and 10 tanks. Wanting to cover as much ground as possible, BMPs and ATGM infantry went into three “task groups” of 5 BMPs and 3 ATGMs each. (This in compliance with the CO’s wish that ATGMs have the ability to “shoot and scoot”; otherwise I would have merely had the ATGM teams assigned to one sector -- the 11/03 area -- as backstop for the tanks and infantry defending west of it and expected them to stand and die there.) So, the missile guys were positioned to cover my “Fulda Gap”, the 09-11/02 area. The task groups were placed at the forest in 11/02 (westernmost northern and southern corner, respectively) plus in the southwest corner of the 12/04 forest. This setup would let me also cover my “mini-Fulda” at 10/00, and fire up 11 easting road to support Task Force North. Just in case he came through the center, my ten tanks went to 101032 in what I think is called a reverse slope defense, and with a LOS down to the road in 09/02. Along the ridge of the big plateau, a bunch of MG teams helped with that defense, and a bunch of squads went right behind the tanks to protect their retreat into the forest. The rest of my infantry were spread out along the route through the open spaces in the SE part of the map, plus right in the middle of the three “entrances” to my area: 10/01 and 10/02, mines at 097 easting cutting off the southernmost route. Expecting a lot of artillery from the enemy, I split them up and spread them out as much as possible. These poor guys were meant to be “speedbumps”, slowing the enemy down and hopefully taking out a vehicle or two each. Kind of gamey tactics, but I felt that since we were supposed to be fanatics they would be prepared to be expendable. The 3 BMP move to Sechstadt went OK, as did the 2 BMP move to the 078030 forest. Once there, we’d already made contact with the enemy, so there was no point in moving anything else forward. An attempt was made to make contact with the dignitaries west of Sechstadt, but the enemy was already close enough to shoot the poor guys trying to pieces, and I hadn’t enough forces in the town to provide sufficient covering fire. Good-bye to that part of the mission. Some shooting started up north, and the column of two companies or so of vehicles that had been moving along the road towards Sechstadt backed off and went north towards the center instead, it seemed. I lost the BMPs in Sechstadt eventually anyway, leaving a couple of AGSes and an MG team holding the town. The push in the center pretty soon eliminated my two BMPs, and even though a tank IIRC went through the position right next to several MG teams, none of them succeeded in hurting it. This didn’t bode well for my defense line of speedbumps further east… The enemy didn’t push things in the center, and seemed to maintain an even pressure up north. When they started smoking my guys in Sechstadt, the logical conclusion was that they were going to sneak past them down south. Following CO’s instructions, I moved one task group from the 11/02 forest southwards to cover the 10/01 road in depth and the mines position. (Not what I’d have done otherwise; I felt snug and safe in the positions I had.) First we discovered a couple of platoons of Bradleys down south. Next turn, they turned out to be at least two companies of vehicles, and the turn after that it looked to be at least four companies. Not pleasant. James allocated almost all our artillery, I think, to the advancing column, and got a couple of “S” results for it. I moved my tanks from their reverse-slope position back through the forest to one where they could help defend “Fulda”. I think Task Force Backstop moved some resources to help me out as well, and I moved the northernmost ATGM task group southwards as well. The blue vehicles spotted the mines and turned north, running into some of my spread-out infantry and a couple of Recon units. Bunching up a bit, they became very vulnerable to James’ artillery, which took out at least 18 of them over a couple of turns, I think. My infantry guys took out another half-dozen or perhaps even a few more. There apparently could have been more -- CO and someone else complained that we’d lost a bunch of shots because ATGM vehicles popped smoked after shooting. I didn’t notice this myself; this was around 0400, I think, and by then I was too tired to be really observant… Anyway, I had cowardly set my non-speedbump units to shoot, pop smoke, and back away, and the smoke obscured the LOS for them, it seems. About at the same time as, or slightly after, the big southern push, Blue went for it in the center in a big way also. Fortunately, the infantry along and behind the plateau slowed this push down sufficiently that once I had to decide what to do with my tanks, the southern threat didn’t seem all that harsh anymore, so I moved them (IIRC) NW to a corner of the forest where they could draw a bead on Blue forces moving through the 10/03 corridor, and also had a LOS up the northern valley. I wasn’t all that worried about the enemy coming through the 10/03 forest, as I had more than a platoon of infantry in it and expected them to take a good toll. To help Task Force North, who now was getting worried about a breakthrough, it seemed, I also moved 5 BMPs northward again to cover the 11 easting valley & road, but this was a mistake, as they then became vulnerable to fire from the Blue forces held up down south. By now, I was so dog tired I don’t even remember what else happened except that we broke off the game because of overall tiredness. I tend to worry in these sorts of things -- fussing about where to put units, wondering where the enemy will strike, etc. I certainly didn’t stop worrying when I saw the extent of the southern push! However, once we broke its momentum, I wasn’t all that worried anymore. I had infantry in my part of the center, backed up by a company of tanks and behind those some ATGMs, to boot. Also, the enemy artillery hadn’t been as dangerous as I’d feared. Task Force Backstop wasn’t needed to back me up anymore, and I felt the real danger was past. Of course, that opinion was formed not really knowing how things actually looked in the north… Lessons learned: OK, so don’t shoot, pop smoke, and scoot; just shoot and scoot. I like to have plenty of air defense -- that way, you can afford to scatter it all over the place to cover the whole battlefield. No need to fire one’s artillery just for the sake of firing it -- if the enemy’s going to make an assault, they’ll probably bunch up somewhere anyway. While the technological glitches are irritating -- and must have been very much more so for Slaggg -- they also contribute to pre-and-early-game tension and apprehension, thus adding a bit of realism to a wargame. Thanks to all involved; Blue fought a good fight, Slaggg crafted a good, interesting scenario (although I think we should have been a “rogue state” rather than a terrorist group), Redwolf stepped in to host the game after the Internet proved to be too much of a fussbudget, and the whole Red team worked pretty well together, I feel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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