Pak40 Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Originally posted by Deanco: " I really gotta laugh when you guys get on your high horse about realism. Wanna know why us non-wargamers like CM? Cause it's a deep, fun game that takes a long time to get good at. And you can blow up and destroy things in 3D! And you wanna know what's REALLY funny? All you grognards like blowing up things in 3D as much as us headbangers, but you WON'T ADMIT IT, even to yourselves!" ********************************* Deanco, First, if you've been reading posts on this forum for any length of time you'd know that BTS is not going to sell out to make (or let 3rd parties make) a mass oriented blow 'em up game. Most of the reason why they are an independent software company is so they can make the kind of games that they want to make, not some game that Microsoft or Hasbro wants them to make. Have you even read the Battlefron.com Manefesto??? You obviously havn't, so go the battlefront.com main page and find it. By the way, here's what's on the main page: "Welcome to the wargaming revolution! While other publishers go chasing the Twitch crowd, we here at Battlefront.com only wish to make great wargames for people who like engaging their brains instead of just physical reflexes." Second, Yes I like to blow stuff up too. I admit it. I like Half-life and I've played most of the click fest strategy games and had a good time with most of them. There are TONS of these "unrealistic" games to choose from, BUT there is only one historic 3D Wargame. ONLY ONE!!! So why not let us keep this one game historicly and physically accurate. Just give us this one game and you can have all the other 3D games that are ever made? Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leclerc Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pak40: Originally posted by Deanco: " I really gotta laugh when you guys get on your high horse about realism. Wanna know why us non-wargamers like CM? Cause it's a deep, fun game that takes a long time to get good at. And you can blow up and destroy things in 3D! And you wanna know what's REALLY funny? All you grognards like blowing up things in 3D as much as us headbangers, but you WON'T ADMIT IT, even to yourselves!" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Reminds me guys saying: "how could you watch a black and white movie?" Poor Deanco...if he simply could know there are 2D game simulating strategic WW2... But it's 2D, after all. I hope one day he will realize the game is deep because it's historical... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted October 19, 2000 Author Share Posted October 19, 2000 ah, well. His loss if he doesn't realilze it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Something tells me you guys aren't serious. You know, not to defend an unpopular position but, there was more than one reason BTS went from 2D to 3D. ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leclerc Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: Something tells me you guys aren't serious. You know, not to defend an unpopular position but, there was more than one reason BTS went from 2D to 3D. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, but in what 3D would be an enhancement to Civilization or any strategic or opreational wargame ( aside graphics)? I'm sick to see posts thinking a game is better because it sells to the " I don't want to use my brain too much" people. When I play those, I don't ask for realism and I don't too exhale a bad feeling about people playing them. The fact is deepness of a game has nothing to do with graphics. A game can be good by its graphics, but considering a game can be good only if it's 3D is plain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Give the guy a break will you?! Whatever are his tastes and preferences in games and playability, he has been contributing to both this game and this board far more than you've both done so far. If you want to snipe at an individual, eMail him directly and free the forum of such posts. Self policing does wonder for a peaceful community... ------------------ Goaty to YK2: I can teach your ass that yes, it can be spanked so hard... PawBroon to Goaty: I do not take subcontractors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Hi folks, OK, everybody calm down now (including me!)Let's put this to rest, OK? Nobody wants to take your super-realistic wargame away from you, least of all me. I am no Johnny-come-lately to this board with a chip on his shoulder and an attitude. Please read some of my previous posts and I think you will see this is true. As Pawbroom states, I DO appreciate this community a lot and have tried to show my appreciation by plowing something back into it in my own humble way (interface mods, website). Funny about the point I made in the other thread (What BTS should learn from ID and others). I have tried to make this same point calmly, nicely, and rationally in 3 or 4 previous threads dealing with more or less the same topic. Each time it has elicited little or no reaction. But the one time I post without rereading, in a fit of pique, without waiting 5 minutes before I hit 'Submit Reply' (more on this later) and suddenly there are sub-posts and everyone is out to get me. I'm a musician, and it is an old adage that you're only as good as your last gig. Looks like that's true here as well. A few statements of principle now. I like (love) this game just the way it is. I compare the accomplishment of BTS to the accomplishment of Sid Meier when he made Civilization, no faint praise coming from me. I play CM all the time, and I don't wish it was any different than the way it is right now. Nevertheless, I want to mod CM. Why? I want to bring this wonderful wego system, TacAI, and depth of gameplay to a wider public! I'm SURE it will be a hit! It's a gut feeling I have, nothing more, but my gut is so sure that it sort of took over my brain for a second, resulting in the post that has stirred up so much animosity and brought LeClerc out of the woodwork, where he has been waiting patiently for me to make a false move. It just seems like a crying shame (according to my gut) that this can not come to pass as it stands, not even from another developer. If I didn't feel very strongly about this I'm sure I never would have posted in the way I did. Finally, I want to apologize to the folks who were offended by the tone of the last post. Chupacabra, I'm sorry if you felt I was belittling your point of view. I hope you can forgive me. I sort of lost it because this is an issue I feel very strongly about. Actually, rereading, I was a bit offended at myself, myself! I know I overstated, but the words just came out and before I knew it, I had hit 'Submit Reply'. Hopefully the above is a clearer statement of where I'm coming from without the vitriol. As I said above, anyone who has followed my posts knows I'm not usually like that. I also have some personal issues which, while not an excuse, probably contributed to the overall effect. Anyway, I would hope that y'all can forgive me so we can move on to greener pastures. Thanks for listening. (rereading, waiting 5 minutes this time) DeanCo-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted October 19, 2000 Author Share Posted October 19, 2000 Deanco, Points well taken. I'm not bashing you or typing in anger for what you have said. I'm just simply stating the facts that there is only one Historically accurate 3D game in existence and ton of 3D shoot em ups. And making CM open for mods will seriously mess things up (as far as historical accuracy is concerned) - I've seen this happen with all the Close Combat Mods; not the the CC mods were bad but that people started bickering over such and such a setting being historically accurate. Also, It's impossible to play someone in a multiplayer game if he has a different mod. I think it's best to let BTS keep the mod key . Also, since BTS has done such a wonderful job there is no doubght that other companies are looking at CM as a model for their next game. I'm willing to bet that in a couple of years there will be new "WEGO" games on the market. We'll just have to wait to play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pak40: ....since BTS has done such a wonderful job there is no doubght that other companies are looking at CM as a model for their next game. I'm willing to bet that in a couple of years there will be new "WEGO" games on the market. We'll just have to wait to play them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> (Duh...I have to write sumpin first before hitting 'Submit Now', don't I? Duh...) Hi Pak40, I hope with all my heart that you are right. However, BTS themselves have stated here (forgot the thread, too lazy to look) that they seriously doubt that other developers will pick up the wego-TacAI ball and run with it. Their rationale? 1) not commercially viable because game too complicated for average video game player, and 2) because of reason (1), game will not sell enough units to cover increased costs of marketing, shelf space, etc. to turn a big enough profit to interest mainstream publishers. Now...my brain bows to their vastly superior knowledge of the inner workings of the game industry (compared to mine), but my gut does not. Also, in their original post, BTS assumed that any CM "clone" would be a...you guessed it, super-realistic simulation of actual warfare, using tons of historical data to determine unit capabilities. This is not my idea at all of a CM clone at all. My idea of a CM clone is GDI vs. NOD, Arm vs. Core, a reduced number of units, fewer esoteric calculations (BHN, etc.), more modern graphics, but with wego and, above all, the TacAI up to snuff. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: wego without topnotch TacAI will fall flat on it's face. Can you imagine a RTS guy saying, "Hey! why did my tank turn it's rear armor to that anti-tank gun?? What a stupid game!" Critical to the success of CM (IMHO) is the fact that you can trust your men during those 60 seconds. Finally, why would any developer bother making something like CM when we have such a shining example of near-perfection in our grubby little hands already? DeanCo-- [This message has been edited by deanco (edited 10-19-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Heh, as someone who probably makes 90% of his posts when he's pissed about something, I can certainly understand where you're coming from. Don't sweat it, DeanCo. Of course now you realize that you have to defend me on the CS forums when I start complaining that the recoil on the Steyr is simply all wrong! ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted October 19, 2000 Share Posted October 19, 2000 Thank you for forgiving me, Chupacabra. I feel much relieved. DeanCo-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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