MajorH TacOps Developer Posted July 10, 2002 Share Posted July 10, 2002 Summary of TacOps Multiplayer Teams Mode (MTM) ... A Multiplayer Teams network game sesson requires one neutral umpire (the network host), two or more players, and can include spectators. The umpire "hosts" the game on a dedicated exercise control computer. The players and spectators "join" the game via networked computers. Multiplayer Teams mode allows more than two players to participate in the same battle via the Internet or a LAN. The technical limit on the number of players is 200 (military version). The practical limit for LAN play (military version) is an unknown number greater than 37. At the time of this writing, 37 players on a LAN is the largest session that I have heard of. The Internet is inherently slower than a LAN, so the practical limit for Internet play is 10 to 15 players, depending on the modem speeds of the various participants. [Note. The public/retail version of TacOps v4 is limited to 20 players.] The umpire and spectators have perfect situational awareness. The fog-of-war rules do not apply to the umpire or to spectators. Although the umpire can not usually be a game player because of his perfect situational awareness, he is allowed to choose to command unit markers and he can maneuver them in support of his exercise goals. Spectators can only watch the battle, they can not command unit markers. There are three levels of fog-of-war for the players: none, force color, and friendly. The unpire chooses the level for a particular game session. "Force color" fog-of-war means that a player is allowed to see all unit markers that have the same color as his, while markers for all other colors are hidden unless spotted. "Friendly" fog-of-war means that a player can not see any unit marker of a team mate except when there is a clear line of sight from one of his unit markers to one of theirs, enemy markers are also not shown unless spotted. The general flow of a typical MTM game turn is as follows. A turn consists of a simultaneous orders phase followed by a simultaneous movement and combat phase. During the orders phase, each player gives orders to the units, off map arty elements, and or air support sorties that he controls. When a player has finished giving orders he selects the Combat/Begin Combat menu item. This causes his computer to automatically send a ready signal to the umpire computer. Once the umpire has received a ready signal from every player, the umpire computer will automatically begin to obtain orders from all players. Once all orders have been received, the umpire computer will automatically combine them into an orders/situation update and then transmit it back to all players. Once all players have received the orders/situation update, the movement and combat phase will automatically start on their computers and on the umpire computer. Movement and combat will then be displayed more or less simultaneously on all computers. Players can not issue new orders to their units until the movement and combat phase has finished on all player computers. When the movement and combat phase is completed on each computer, another ready signal is automatically sent to the umpire computer. Once the umpire computer senses that the movement and combat phase has been completed on all player computers, it will automatically authorize all players to begin a new orders phase by sending a signal to their computers that re-enables their menus. This cycle is then repeated for the duration of the exercise. The umpire has the option to alter this cycle somewhat. Instead of waiting for the players to signal that they are ready to proceed to the movement/combat phase, the umpire can use the Combat/Begin Combat w Options menu item to force the immediate start and display of a movement and combat phase on all computers – whether the players are ready or not. The umpire can also choose to use an orders phase timer that will automatically force the start of a movement and combat phase after the expiration of an interval specified by the umpire. "Forced start" plus an automatic time limit on the amount of time allowed to the players to give orders is the method most commonly used for both hobby and military game sessions. In this mode, the game runs on full automatic and the the umpire is free to step away from his computer to do other tasks. The umpire can transfer ownership of a unit marker from one player to another, within the same force color, at any time during a game. There are a variety of "on the fly" tools available to the umpire that he can use to influence the game in progress such as add/delete units, damage/repair units, command unit markers himself, add/reduce supply levels, add/reduce off map artillery and airstrikes, and add/delete minefields, LZs, obstacles, and bridges. If team colors other than Blue and Red are to be used, the umpire must use the Options/Rules of Engagement menu item to set force wide Rules of Engagement for the additional teams. The default setting for the Blue and Red teams is that they will engage each other's markers at any opportunity but they will not engage the markers of other team colors unless attacked. The default setting for team colors other than Blue and Red is that they will not engage any other marker color unless attacked. The Options/Rules of Engagement menu item produces a window that allows these Rules of Engagement to be changed. This window presents a matrix of possible color X vs color Y interactions. If a given color vs color interaction button in the matrix is set to "Free Fire" then markers of the first color will engage markers of the second color at any opportunity. If a given color vs color interaction is set to "Self Defense" then markers of the first color will engage markers of the second color only after being attacked. After setting the force wide Rules of Engagement, the umpire can choose to give different Rules of Engagement to individual unit markers. This is done by clicking on a unit marker so as to open its unit orders window and then clicking on the button in the window labeled "Rules of Engagement". The team colors other than Blue and Red are usually used to represent coalition military units, additional hostile or semi-hostile forces, and or civilians on the battlefield. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pichocki Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Hi, Major! Just to satisfy my curiosity: I thought there is a certain amount of random things in every turn. So how is it possible that EVERY computer in a Multiplayer game performs a turn with a guaranteed identical outcome? Or do you mean the umpire's machine claculates the outcome and then transfers the results back to the client machines? Regards, Pi. :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorH TacOps Developer Posted July 11, 2002 Author Share Posted July 11, 2002 During each orders exchange, the umpire computer generates and transmits a list of random numbers to the remote computers. The remote computers pull numbers from this list in the same order on every machine so all of the machines end up doing the same thing. [ July 11, 2002, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: MajorH ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 I was wondering if there were a rules of engagement setting between "Free Fire" and "Self Defense", namely one that would allow specific targeting, but wouldn't have it happen automatically. In other words, the player could choose the moment to start the engagement. I suppose that one could achieve this by setting Free Fire and then setting the engagement range to zero. Would that work? Can the umpire set the engagement range (basically something like the weapons off setting?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Sterrett Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 The umpire could set the range for those units under the umpire's control. It is possible to set individual units to have a different ROE setting. In any event, the time to change is under the players' control, to the extent to deciding to fire first or not, since the player can also change force-wide ROEs on any given turn. [ July 12, 2002, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: James Sterrett ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Perfect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Is there any way to play a multiplayer game with only two people (and two computers)? ie. Can the "umpire" be computer controlled (or simply do nothing)? And must the umpire be on a separate physical computer or could one computer run both the umpire application and the client application? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 There is/will be a two-player mode which is just two computers by TCP as other wargames do. All the umpire options are not available in this mode, if you want to tweak things you have to edit the scenario at game start like you would for PBEM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorH TacOps Developer Posted July 16, 2002 Author Share Posted July 16, 2002 >Is there any way to play a multiplayer game >with only two people (and two computers)? Yes. As Redwolf said there is a two player network mode. One player is the host and the other joins. In this case the host is merely a player, he is not an "umpire". A host who is also an umpire is only needed if more that two people want to play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Thankyou for your reply, I was a little worried about that. Silly of me really. Could somebody please tell me if the "Umpire" and "Client" can be run on the same computer in the case where there are more than two players? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorH TacOps Developer Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 I don't understand the question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 A Multiplayer Teams network game sesson requires one neutral umpire (the network host), two or more players, and can include spectators. The umpire "hosts" the game on a dedicated exercise control computer. The players and spectators "join" the game via networked computers. Is it a strict requirement that the host application be run on a dedicated computer? Could the umpire and one player share one computer. As I understand it the umpire only does something between turns so could you just switch between app's on one computer to let the umpire do his stuff and then switch back so that the player can make his turn? I am asking this question more out of curiosity than any perceived need - it would just allow one extra player for a given number of computers. I have not played TacOps (Putting off buying it until TacOps 4 is available) and I don't have a solid understanding of the game mechanics, which is why I am probably asking a dumb question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorH TacOps Developer Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 > Is it a strict requirement that the host application be run > on a dedicated computer? Yes. > Could the umpire and one player share one computer. No. For one thing, each participant must have a different IP address in order for the network data to get to the right places. > As I understand it the umpire only does something between > turns so could you just switch between app's on one > computer to let the umpire do his stuff and then switch > back so that the player can make his turn? I don't see the umpire being able to properly control a group exercise unless he also watches the combat/movement phase as it occurs on his screen. > I have not played TacOps (Putting off buying it until TacOps > 4 is available) and I don't have a solid understanding of > the game mechanics ... You may be visualizing a method of game play that is not appropriate to a TacOps group exercise. > I am probably asking a dumb question. Not at all. I just could not visualize why two people would want to participate in a networked game with both of them using the same computer. It might clear things up somewhat to consider that TacOps v4 descends from TacOpsCav v4 which was primarily designed to support a military Battalion to Brigade level, free play, cooperative, training exercise with 20 to 40 workstations involved on a high speed LAN - with both Allied and OPFOR units being run by players rather than by the umpire. In such an environment the umpire has got a lot to do besides just keeping the game and the network running. And there is no shortage of computers in such an environment. [ July 17, 2002, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: MajorH ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Thanks for clearing that up. I understand the technical and design reasons for it being the way it is. "I just could not visualize why two people would want to participate in a networked game with both of them using the same computer" Neither can I, but thats not quite what I mean. An example would be a LAN session where 4 people bring along a computer and everyone wants to play. A scenario would be chosen and all 4 people would decide how the umpire would be set up (time limit, FOW etc) and after that the umpire would do nothing for the rest of the game. This would allow all 4 people to play an active role. When time and computers are limited its not going to be easy to find someone who wants to be umpire. If you can set up a game with no umpire then its not a problem (except for the 2 player limit) Mostly I will only be playing 2 player games anyway so it's not a big problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 BTW a 4 player LAN session could be fun with 3 players vs the AI but with the umpire adding a little spice to the AI moves. And I realise the primary motivation for this software isn't fun but it doesn't hurt does it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Sterrett Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I believe you could set up the situation you describe, with three players and the fourth computer set to run on automatic with Red run by the AI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 You can do multiplayer against the programmed opponent? I doubt that. Regarding the original question, I hosted a battle that was as simple as I could make it, and still I was constantly running around the battle. If you really want to do that, there is a virtual machine emulator called vmware (www.vmware.com). It allows you to run independent additional instances of Windows (or other OSes) on one computer. It will technically allow you to do what you want, to have an iconized umpire game munching away, while one client TacOps is running in the foreground on the "real" machine. If you have a gigahertz machine that will probably be fast enough. But I doubt it will be a good solution from an umpiring standpoint. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pichocki Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I do not fully understand the answer regarding IP addresses above. What I tried is: I did give my NT4 machine two different IP addresses and tried to host a game on one machine (Two Player and Multi) and tried to join it from the same machine (but different IP). It did not work. I even started TacOps from a different directory after duplicating all its files, but it did not work either. What's the reason for this? I think Bruce70's objection is not so very far from reality: Sometimes one wants (or better: three want) to play together with virtually nothing to do for the umpire. Why can't this be possible? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorH TacOps Developer Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 I doubt that Redwolf's suggestion with regard to vmware would work in a TacOps multiplayer, teams game session without producing network and game play bugs - if it worked at all. It would be an interesting experiment but I would not want anyone to spend money in order to try it. [ July 17, 2002, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: MajorH ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorH TacOps Developer Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 > What I tried is: I did give my NT4 machine two different IP > addresses and tried to host a game on one machine (Two > Player and Multi) and tried to join it from the same > machine (but different IP). It did not work. I even started > TacOps from a different directory after duplicating all its > files, but it did not work either. >What's the reason for this? The reason is that I did not code TacOps v4 to work that way. > I think Bruce70's objection is not so very far from reality: > Sometimes one wants (or better: three want) to play > together with virtually nothing to do for the umpire. > Why can't this be possible? Anything is possible if I put enough time and money into the code. When or whether a particular new detail is added is determined by its general usefullness, its interest level, and its priority in relation to the other 1,413 items on the wish list. Once in a while I have to stop tweaking and sell something . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Originally posted by MajorH: I doubt that Redwolf's suggestion with regard to vmware would work in a TacOps multiplayer, teams game session without producing network and game play bugs - if it worked at all. They are true seperate instances of machines, each running their own version of Windows (possibly one 98 and one NT or any other combination). From TacOps view there is nothing that would make it run differently compared to two physically different machines, except speed. You need a fast machine. However, you are right about this... It would be an interesting experiment but I would not want anyone to spend money in order to try it.... vmware costs $300 and will most probably be of no use. Not because of technical issues but because the umpire needs a permanent game instance, IMHO. And for $300 you can get a used machine fast enough for TacOps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 You can do multiplayer against the programmed opponent? I doubt that.Is it true that you can't play a multiplayer game against an AI opponent, even with an umpire? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorH TacOps Developer Posted July 19, 2002 Author Share Posted July 19, 2002 > James ... I believe you could set up the situation you > describe, with three players and the fourth computer set to > run on automatic with Red run by the AI. > Redwolf ... You can do multiplayer against the programmed > opponent? I doubt that. Points this time to Redwolf. At present the computer opponent does not work with multiplayer mode. I wanted it to and I took a quick pass at it a couple of weeks ago but it rapidly turned into a mess of bugs. Maybe I can slip this in during a future maintenance release after my stress level and the need to avoid risk subsides a bit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce70 Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 If it could find its way in at some stage I would really appreciate it. Thankyou for your prompt replies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorH TacOps Developer Posted September 9, 2002 Author Share Posted September 9, 2002 Pop 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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