OT: computer Squad Leader

[mscano]

Was wondering if anyone knew what was going on with computer squad leader by Random? Haven't seen anything in a while on it.

[Hamstersss]

It sucks.

On multiple levels.

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Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less.

-David Edelstein

[Mr. Clark]

WOW! Multiple level sucking! Now there's a feature to eagerly anticipate!

[aka_tom_w]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mscano:

Was wondering if anyone knew what was going on with computer squad leader by Random? Haven't seen anything in a while on it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you want Computer Squad Leader? Play CM.

Its simple no one else (at least not game companies run by marketing nerds and business suits) will ever take the time to MODEL all the balistics reality amrmour penetration data and WWII historical accuracy that you will find in CM.

CM is Computer Squad Leader!

That other game they are working on is more akin to Soldiers at War 2 and it won't be anything like CM.

honest

-tom w

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Following are opinions (very abridged because of the size of this post) of members of the 66th and 67th Armored Regiments and 2nd Armored Division:

The consensus of opinion of all personnel in the 66th Armored Regiment is that the German tank and anti-tank weapons are far superior to the American in the following categories.

Superior Flotation.

Greater mobility. This is directly contrary to the popular opinion that the heavy tank is slow and cumbersome.

The German guns have a much higher muzzle velocity and no telltale flash. The resulting flat trajectory gives great penetration and is very accurate.

The 90-mm, although an improvement, is not as good as either the 75 or 88. If HVAP ammunition becomes available, it will improve the performance of both the 76-mm and 90-mm guns.

German tank sights are definitely superior to American sights. These, combined with the flat trajectory of the guns, give great accuracy.

German tanks have better sloped armor and a better silhouette than the American tanks.

The M24 tank has not been available long, but has created a very favorable impression.

The M4 has been proven inferior to the German Mark VI in Africa before the invasion of Sicily, 10 July 1943. "

-Brigadier General J. H. Collier, Commanding Combat Command "A"

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Los]

I guess none of these responses have had much detail...

Computer SL's designer has already been on the wargame newsgroup and goe into great detail about the game and it's design philosophy. One thing that is very clear. This thig has little or nothing to do with either SL or ASL as it is known from Avalon Hill. They're just using the name. The game seems to have more in common with the CC series (i.e. you control individual guys not squads of guys er se.) and maybe something like the Shrapnel Game 101st Airborne or maybe XCOM meets W2W. It may even be a good game, certainly the designer if very enthusiastic, but if you think it's going to have anything at all to do with Squad Leader, you might as well blow your gasket now.

Los

[Spook]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Los:

I guess none of these responses have had much detail...

Computer SL's designer has already been on the wargame newsgroup and goe into great detail about the game and it's design philosophy. One thing that is very clear. This thig has little or nothing to do with either SL or ASL as it is known from Avalon Hill. They're just using the name. The game seems to have more in common with the CC series (i.e. you control individual guys not squads of guys er se.) and maybe something like the Shrapnel Game 101st Airborne or maybe XCOM meets W2W. It may even be a good game, certainly the designer if very enthusiastic, but if you think it's going to have anything at all to do with Squad Leader, you might as well blow your gasket now.

Los<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, Los, to your core statement that the Squad Leader name is borrowed, and that little else (if any) of the earlier AH boardgames is transferring to this new computer game of the same name. However, in scale terms, the CC series actually are "squad-level", although I never saw 10/12-man squads in the CC/CC2 games that I bothered with. (Historical TO&E's aren't a high criteria to the CC game series.)

I should also add that CM is NOT "Computer Squad Leader", nor will it ever be. The only connection to make to SL/ASL is that the earlier SL/ASL boardgames served as the initial inspiration for creating a new computerized WW2 squad-level wargame.

From there onwards, however, CM was built with its own unique foundation and framework. There isn't the same turn-based play of SL/ASL where the turns are subdivided into player turns and phases within the player turns. There isn't the same morale scale. There aren't the stock squad firepower values of SL/ASL, there aren't the cataloged ASL armor values, and there isn't a database of all of the earlier ASL dice-roll tables for infantry, ordnance, & armor. Because CM was not set up to simulate rolling a pair of six-sided dice all of the time that human SL/ASL players have to do.

I'm not directing these comments specifically to you, Los, because all of this is quite obvious to you, I'm sure. Nor am I trying to disparage the SL/ASL boardgames, because as boardgames, these were revolutionary in the '70's & '80's and are still quite good today for many table-top wargamers. But a true "Computer Squad Leader" would really be just a porting of the ASL mechanics into a computer game environment. Computer technology advances have rendered a stock attempt to port SL/ASL as obsolete, though.

So while CM is the computerized "spirit" of SL/ASL, it's really it's own game from now on. And as SL evolved over time into ASL, I suspect that CM will similarly see its own evolution over the years.