killmore Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 I heard on history channel that hitler was in love with jewish women who refused to merry him because he was not jewish. Is that true? Do you think that could have caused his insane hate of anything jewish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 Preposterous. Did they mention anything resembling evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hnh3_cm Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 Ah. The Hitler Channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 Yeah, they got some lame documentaries to be sure. And would someone please tell me how reruns of Mannix qualifies as either "Art" OR "Entertainment"??? ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted January 31, 2000 Author Share Posted January 31, 2000 They did mentioned her name and dates. By the way I am very strongly against any crimes against any nation/religion etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 What undermined my respect for History Channel documentaries was an "Ike vs. Monty" show a couple of years ago. It seemed more focused on personal "blurbs", like Ike's possible affair with his chaffeur and Monty's "attention" to a young boy, than on their respective proficiencies and differences in command. Some good stuff does get on that channel, but some really lame stuff gets in there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 Occhams Razor: Hitler probably hated Jews because there was a 10 century long European history of hating, expelling, killing (and so forth) Jews. The opinion of many people in Europe ranged from "dislike Jews, except for Mr. Soandso on the corner whose nice to my kids" to "They killed Jesus, so let's kill them." It's difficult to count the number of times that Jews were expelled from this country or that from about 900 on. Charlemagne was the last major ruler who did not treat them badly (he saw them as a valuable resource of highly educated people in a time when education was lacking at best). If the "History" channel wants to come up with bad history that will entertain people... well, that's why I don't own a TV. Sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 Another little Hitlerfact, is, he was a Vegetarian. Saw the movie "Inside the 3rd Reich", all about Albert Speer's involvement. Hitler goes on this big spew about how Vegetarians will inherit the Earth and all. Makes for interesting conversation when certain annoying vegetarians come over to visit Yeah, ever since A&E started playing stuff that would be shown on FOX I tend to avoid that channel. Occam's razor: The simplest explanation tends to be the right one. The Jew's were just in the wrong place at the wrong time throughout history. Hatred of the Jew's, and indeed any minority, stems towards an inferiority complex faced by people who failed somewhere in life. Hatred is rooted in fear, usually unrational fear. Hitler thought that didn't get into the Architectural or Art Colleges, not because he sucked as a painter and drawer, but, because of the Jews. Germany thought that it didn't lose the Great War because it's army was defeated, but rather the Jews sabotaged it from the inside. The popular assumed reason Jewish people are better off is because they rip people off, not because they have a history of being wize in economics (the Jewish religion allowed for moneylending, Christianity did not). The sad and scary thing is, is that present day Israel is very similar to Germany in the 1930's. Just substitute the Germans for the Jewish population, and the Arabs for the Jews. Israel has a very right wing government in power, it and some of the population have the desire to kick out the Arabs once and for all, to make their nation ethnically monogomus. This is not to say that Israel IS going to turn into a Thrid Reich, or that the average Jewish inhabatent fully supports the regime, but, the same went for Germany. If you don't pay attention to history, you are doomed to repeat it. [This message has been edited by Major Tom (edited 01-31-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 I heard on history channel that hitler was in love with jewish women who refused to merry him because he was not jewish. Is that true? Do you think that could have caused his insane hate of anything jewish? I'd rank that theory somewhere along the one that states Ludwig Wittgenstein as the direct cause of Hitler's antisemitism. It is possible that the unfortunate love affair may have affected Hitler's opinions somewhat but I don't believe that it is the direct cause. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 Wittgenstein fled Austria to England in order to avoid persecution from the Nazi regime in 1938 even though he fought for Austria in the Great War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmeek Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 I wouldn’t be so hard on the History Channel. As the channel that my TV invariably turns to when nothing else is on (which is often), I’ve figured out a few things. I don’t think they produce all of the shows they air, but buy them and maybe repackage them a little to fit their theme. That is why you can find a wide variety of shows, from fluffy to surprisingly accurate and balanced programs. I know one Hitler show was preceded by a narrator that explained that some of the historians’ theories were revisionist and not supported by a whole lot of facts. Besides, any channel that has the guts to devote an hour to the history of plumbing and then have three historians debate whether or not John Crapper invented the toilet is a winner in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom: Germany thought that it didn't lose the Great War because it's army was defeated, but rather...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Point of clarification: It was the revolution in the navy which brought about an armistice. It was the armistice which led to Germany's loss of the war. The last offensive in the west had failed, but the army was not defeated. Most depressing thing I've ever read on a T-Shirt: "Even Hitler had a girlfriend..." ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mch Posted January 31, 2000 Share Posted January 31, 2000 I read somewhere(can't remember)that EVERY woman Mr.H was known to have had sex with Commited Suicide! Funny enough though..... "whistle while you work, Hitler is a jerk, Mussolini bit his weenie, now it dosen't work" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted February 1, 2000 Share Posted February 1, 2000 Here's the situation after the end of Operation Michael. "The Military situation deteriorated rapidly. The German Army lost 228 100 men in August; of these 110 000 were listed as 'missing', that is, they had deserted. The number of divisions had shrunk from roughly 200 in March to 125 by the end of September; only 47 were deemed fit for combat. The Allies maintained 211 full divisions in the field, and their numbers grew steadily with the daily arrival of thousands of Americans." "Some officers on Ludendorff's staff suggested that Germany might resort to a levee en masse or even to guerilla warfare to stem the Allied advance. They found few takers... ...Major von Leeb (future WWII General) expressed the view of many when he stated: 'The campaign has been lost, the military mistakes [made] havce now come home to roost'. Leeb only hoped that 'diplomacy can save what there is to save'." From "Emergence of Modern Germany" The naval mutiny was just the clincher at the end of an already lost game. The German army was defeated, entire divisions refused to defend their ground and withdrew from the battlefield. They could have held out another year, but, the stipulations on the treaties would have been even worse than that of Versailles, along with many pointless deaths. Plus, buy September 1918 Bulgaria, Turkey, and Austria-Hungary have all surrendered. The Germans, without an army, would have had to defend from the West, South and the East against an enemy who was constantly growing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 1, 2000 Share Posted February 1, 2000 Okay, I'll buy that ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EScurlock Posted February 1, 2000 Share Posted February 1, 2000 cOriginally posted by killmore: I heard on history channel that hitler was in love with jewish women who refused to merry him because he was not jewish. Is that true? Which show was that? This is the first I've heard of that. I rank that one right up there with "He slaughtered the Jews because he thought his father was half Jewish, and he couldn't bear the thought of having Jewish blood in jis veins." I think the previous posts have some good lines of thought on the hatred of the Jews. I'd give my two cents, but it'd just be a different shade of the same basic color. BTW I thing the History Channel rocks. Yes you hear some quacky stuff on it occasionally, but that stuff is usually well counter ballanced. Most of the time the shows they air are pretty good. Much better than some of the clearly pollitically slanted garbage I've read in college that passed as text books! ------------------ He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted February 1, 2000 Share Posted February 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom: the Jewish religion allowed for moneylending, Christianity did not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, that was a reason why people often didn't like the Jews, long before Hitler. In fact, in many countries throughout Europe the Jews were not allowed to have any manufacturing job for several centuries, so they hardly had a choice of profession. Money lending was one of the few things they could do. Of course, you don't get very popular if you do that (and want to live from that). The big difference is that while quite some people didn't like the Jews, only very few would actually take arms against them, let alone kill them all. I don't think it will ever be known what really caused Hitler's hatred. Dschugaschwili PS: As I mentioned in an earlier thread, a good book on Hitler is "Anmerkungen zu Hitler" by Sebastian Haffner. (English: "The Meaning of Hitler") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiloIndiaAlpha Posted February 1, 2000 Share Posted February 1, 2000 "...refused to merry him because he was not jewish." Hitler wasn't merry because he lost the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eichmann2 Posted February 1, 2000 Share Posted February 1, 2000 Ha! Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted February 1, 2000 Share Posted February 1, 2000 Isn't Occam's Razor really - Don't multiply entities unnecessarily? Which essentially means, given two or more explanations that explain the facts equally well, go with the simpler one. The key here is the ability to explain the facts. A simpler theory is never chosen over a more complex but more 'correct' one. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted February 2, 2000 Share Posted February 2, 2000 guachi, you win. I was being lazy. My point was this: Jews were, depending on place and time, prohibited from owning land, owning businesses, owning property of any kind, military service, service as doctors, or, in various forms, doing things that they could make a living at. I spent a year in college taking two classes on this subject from a guy who knew it inside and out. The christian prohibition on "usury" has been historically flexible. Usury was judged to mean, at various time, any interest on a loan, excessive interest on a loan, compounding interest on a loan and so forth. Therefore, Jews often became money lenders. Local rulers would put up with this, and then, needing money kick the Jews out and take their money and property as "moving tax". This often strangely coincided with same local ruler owning those same people $$$. These expulsion were often violent and fatal for the victims. Mass killing of Jews happened a number of times in middle-ages, such as during the leadup to one of the crusades, when the crusaders murdered and killed tens of thousands of Jews along the Rhine. What it basically boiled down is that being a Jew sucked a lot, and that, more importantly, the Holocaust wasn't the temporary madness of the German people, nor was it the fiendish machinations of a one-testicled teetotaller vegetarian. Rather, it was a the nadir of a long history of violence, incidents of ethnic cleansing and robbery. Sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxm2 Posted February 2, 2000 Share Posted February 2, 2000 However, speaking to the point about the anti-Semitic nature of the Third Reich, there was nothing inevitable about a government which chose to attempt to exterminate all Jews. Even a dictatorship could have decided to resort to persecution, deportation, etc. without the madness of the Final Solution. However, Hitler made numerous references to exterminating Jews prior to coming to power, although he experimented with a variety of lesser measures, obviously, before embarking on his final path. Speaking to the original topic of this thread, and as a psychologist, the idea that a single, or even multiple failed love affairs or other disappointments would lead someone to attempt to exterminate an entire race or ethnic group does not make sense. When someone resorts to exteme violence due to life's normal disappointments, you can bet that the person was not a "regular guy" to begin with, even if he seemed like a "nice quiet fella.." In Hitler's case, he was apparently set in his pattern of little empathy for others, few and shallow relationships, an unrealistic (to say the least) assessment of his own infallibility and capabilities, and a profound sense of rage which surfaced in a variety of ways. There is evidence that Hitler's father belittled and physically abused both Hitler and his mother, and that Hitler's mother idolized and indulged him (she lost two children just before he was born). This combination of "you can do no wrong" and "you're a worthless nothing" added to the powerlessness of being assaulted and watching your mother being belittled and assaulted is not a good one for turning out a nice guy....not that there is any inevitability about what's going to happen, it just stacks the deck against normal empathy and normal relationships with others. I really recommend Kershaw's excellent recent biography (1st volume) of Hitler on these various topics. ------------------ Max Molinaro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Jenkins Posted February 2, 2000 Share Posted February 2, 2000 You guys should buy "Explaining Hitler" by Rosenbaum. It goes into the theories and reasons for Hitler's rise and his personality. It seems that Hitler only had sex once that we know of, and that was with a prostitute in the First World War. He got advanced VD and it left him impotent for life. He DID have both testicles, they just couldn't do him any good. He got his kicks by watching people urinate and deficate on each other. He used to have women do EVERYTHING in front of him except have sex with him. He would reach a "peak" of sorts, and that was that. There are also reports that he had a "relationship" with his teenage niece Geli Rabaul. There are two different reports of this. One has him having made detailed drawings of her genitals. Another says that he had her squat over his face and urinate on him. I believe them both, and they are in the book. Also, he was not blinded by gas, it was hysterical blindness caused by Germany's defeat. His doctor at the time says so. Interesting how neither Hitler or Goering could perform. Goering lost his ability from a bullet wound in the groin during the Beer Hall Putsch. Between them and Julius Streicher (pedophile and sadist) it's no wonder the regime was as proactively evil as it was. ------------------ Climb to Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandFreisler Posted February 2, 2000 Share Posted February 2, 2000 Hitler? Aah, a poor artist lost in the world of politics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted February 3, 2000 Share Posted February 3, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by maxm2: However, speaking to the point about the anti-Semitic nature of the Third Reich, there was nothing inevitable about a government which chose to attempt to exterminate all Jews. Even a dictatorship could have decided to resort to persecution, deportation, etc. without the madness of the Final Solution. However, Hitler made numerous references to exterminating Jews prior to coming to power, although he experimented with a variety of lesser measures, obviously, before embarking on his final path. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But I think there *was* something inevitable. Governments, dictatorship and otherwise, had done and sponsored relatively similar things (expelling, mass murder, deprivation of civil rights <such as they were -- c.r. is a modern concept> of Jews) for a thousand years previous. Some regimes were better than others. The Nazis were particularly bad (duh) and had the means to industrialize it by using all the inventions of the new age -- trains, factories, machineguns, chemicals, electricity and so forth. The technology and ideology of the industrial age combined with the anti-semitism 'built' into so much European culture meant that the eventual rise of a "Final Solution" was not surprising. People had been talking about a "Final Solution" to the "Jewish problem" for hundreds of years. Sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts