Love Them Mortars!

[Dar]

I gotta say that CM is the first game I've ever played that actually shows what mortars can do! Every other game I've played has reduced mortars to the state of ineffective pea-shooters. In fact, after playing most other games, I was left wondering why most armies even bothered with mortars if they were truly so useless! CM, however, finally gives the mortar it's due.

I'm not referring to off-board mortars with spotters, but rather individual on-board mortars. The ability of a mortar to hide and use an in-command HQ unit to spot is fantastic! With their high rate of fire and accuracy, I have been using mortars to beat off infantry attacks with ease, and I love it! My only regret is that they don't carry enough ammo to keep firing all game long!

Thanks, Charles, for finally giving the mortar its due in a wargame!

Dar

[sniperscope]

Well I am glad you like it pal this is one area that I suck. My mortar teams always seem to be out of radio contact or worse, Dead in the streets.

sniperscope

[Guest Scott Clinton]

The 60mm is one of the reasons I LOVE to play as the US in CM.

The other is 12 men in each squad.

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[Buckeye]

I also like mortars, but they are tricky to use in a city fight. I'm getting my a** handed to me in a PBEM by Fionn right now, and one (of the many) problems I had was that I couldn't figure out how to effectively use my 60 mm mortars. I'm defending a "city" against an assault. It was difficult to put the mortars into a position where they were in CC, the HQ unit has LOS, and the mortar was not in the line of fire. Ideas?

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"Don't lie to me, Gustav! You're a stinkin' Mac user!"

[Kingfish]

Buckeye,

Playing against Fionn is hard enough even if your mortars were effective. My advice to you, Have a Jabo drop a bomb on his armor. He hates that!

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The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive

[Guest Scott Clinton]

Buckeye, mortars are not best suited to city fighting that is for sure.

I have used them a time or two and I tried to set them up behind the house where the HQ was at. I then sent the HQ to the second floor (if needed) for better LOS. Because of the dire need for HQs in the 'closed' environment of house-to-house fighting I also ended up grouping my all of my mortars together.

If you come up with anything better let me know.

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[Tommy T]

Well, it is difficult to use mortars in city fighting in real life too. You can't place mortars to hard surfaces and buildings are tricky because you must use high angles or use direct fire to target on streets.

Mortars are very accurate and effective in real life. In many games mortars are badly under estimated. In rl military exercise we cut off our target tree from 3,5 km with 81 mm light mortar. I'm mortar squad leader in real life

[Juardis]

Buckeye, if your HQ is in LOS but your 60 mm isn't, then the best you can do is target an AREA (not a Unit) with your 60 mm (provided your HQ can see that area). Presumably, you'd want to target area fire right next to the unit and hope you get lucky. I haven't tried this yet, but that's what the manual says.

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Jeff Abbott

[Redleg]

My mortar teams are always the first to get killed if I ever get them in a position to see anything to shoot at. As soon as they pop up to fire, any enemy in LOS fires on the poor guy. I still have to figure out how to use them right.

[Buckeye]

Yeah, that can work (and that's what I tried). But in a city, the HQ unit needs to be in the front of a building, for LOS, and the mortar team needs to be outside (can't fire from inside the building), so it's tricky finding spots where that's possible and the mortar team isn't in the LOS of the opposing forces. Makes it difficult to take advantage of the mortars in cities, but that might just be realistic. I doubt it was easy to get 60 mm mortars to deliver supporting fire within cities (as opposed to the approaches to cities).

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"Don't lie to me, Gustav! You're a stinkin' Mac user!"

[Dar]

Buckeye:

With a minimum 100m firing range and not enough power to hurt units in buildings, those mortars are pretty ineffective in city fighting. Engagement ranges are usually less than 100m, and beyond that units don't stay in LoS too long (darting across streets, etc.). I don't recommend using them in the city unless they can cover some wide open areas, like the approaches.

Redleg:

That's the key to using an HQ to spot for them. As long as they're in the command radius of the HQ (brown line connecting them), the HQ can spot for them and the mortars don't need to see the target. Just ensure that the HQ can see the spot you want to hit and order the mortar to target it (ignore the color of the targetting line--if the HQ can see the spot, the target will stick). The HQ is spotting, not firing, so it's not attracting attention. The mortars are out of sight, so they're not attracting attention. But the target gets plastered, and the high rate of fire and short response time of the mortars is *very* impressive!

I had three 81mm mortars with one HQ spotter chase two platoons out of a wheatfield last night--too cool! If only they had the ammo to fire more than 2-3 turns... *sigh*

Dar

[Guest Michael emrys]

Don't underestimate mortars in area fire. The effect may not be as concentrated on one unit, but if you suspect there are more than one squad/crew, just getting the one won't do the trick anyway. A few minutes of area fire (especially if they are in trees so you get a few airbursts) usually has them running. Once you get them on the move they are easy to pick off with direct fire weapons.

As for their not being too effective in city fighting, has anybody tried using bazookas instead? If you can work a couple of them into range in some kind of cover (but not in a building!), and have them both target your chosen victim, it seems to remind the bad guys that they had a previous engagement.

Michael

[Dar]

To add to what Michael was saying about area fire:

Another great thing about having on-board mortars hit an area is that you can create a pattern as needed to suit the situation. For example, if you see units running out of some trees and into a wheatfield, you can target one mortar on the trees, one on the clearing between the trees and field, and one on the field to create a depth pattern. Or you can stretch them all out across the trees to create a breadth pattern. Or make up another pattern.

It's a lot more flexible than having one and only one spot for your off-board arty to plaster. Plus, you don't have the one or more minutes to wait!

Dar

[Buckeye]

Hey Dar, I agree with you that they aren't terribly useful in a city fight. However, in a quick battle, when I chose a company of paratroops, I didn't have any choice. I don't think there's a way to selectively delete squads or teams after you select a company. And even if there was, I don't think I'd have known to do it. It was my first city fight (and against Fionn, to make it worse!).

[John Kettler]

60mm mortars, properly directed, can kill OT vehicles outright (offed quite a few halftracks) and force heavier armor to button up and even leave the area.

In last night's Quick Battle I K-killed a buttoned StuG III with an 81mm mortar round. I guess it set the engine on fire, which promptly set the fighting compartment ablaze. Sure, it's not likely, but things like this will definitely give your opponent pause. If an 81 can do this, just imagine the fun when 4.2s and 120mm mortars enter the fray.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Seanachai]

Man, I have nothing new to offer, but I have to chime in on this thread. In the Demos, where I first encountered mortars I hated them; they frustrated me, and I found them completely useless because I didn't understand how to use them. Since then, I've had a complete turn around on this fine combat arm (I'm not saying I'm good at using them yet, just that I now realize their potential!)

In my limited experience (that being understood), they are a bear to use in urban combat, and extremely dicey in heavy woods. I spent one whole game in heavy woods, after the combat had centered itself around the flag, to circling with some mortar squads trying to bring them into play. If it had been a PBEM rather than a Quick Battle, I would have expected my opponent to email me asking 'are you using those mortar squads for recon, or just taking some kind of Grand Tour? I thought we agreed no gamey behaviour!'

In Quick Battles now, I always try to have a supply of mortars on hand (60mm for the Amis, 2 in. mortars for the Commonwealth; okay, I don't play as the Germans that much right now, which surprises me. I was mad for playing Germans in my youth. I think I see more of a challenge, now, in playing Allies. That will for sure change on Ost Front. There it will be more of an equal balance).

In my experience, mortars are great for:

1) Suppressing enemy MGs

2) Inflicting casualties/disrupting enemy staging areas (you know, when you can tell that enemy squads are gathering in cover to rush one of your positions, and you bring mortars down on them, and they start taking a few casualties, morale is disrupted, units have to keep taking cover, etc. This is especially true when the cover they are using is woods, tall pines, and such, because tree bursts are almost more effective then direct hits)

3) If the fire is direct, helping to turn back expected enemy rushes

4) Taking out Open Top Vehicles, immobilizing Light Armour, etc., as was raised above.

I love this game, because there is so much to learn, and so much to learn well!

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After witnessing exceptional bravery from his Celtic mercenaries, Alexander the Great called them to him and asked if there was anything they feared. They told him nothing, except that the sky might fall on their heads.

[Cybeq]

I want to second Dar's original statement. Mortars rock! Before CM my wargame of choice was Steel Panthers. In SP mortars were anemic, pitiful, and useless for anything but throwing smoke. I remember reading somewhere that most injuries/casulties in modern warfare are caused by mortars. I didn't believe it was even possible until I used them in CM. My first CM mortar experience was when I used a 60mm in direct fire to ELIMINATE a German 150mm inf gun. That would never happen in SP! But it could happen in real life and it DID happen in CM! LONG LIVE COMBAT MISSION!

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"To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence." -Sun Tzu, The Art Of War