Panzer Elite

[Eichmann2]

I realise that this is slightly off track, but it is WW2 after all. I have read several reviews of Panzer Elite recently, mostly mediocre, would anyoue who has played it be good enough to give me an indication if it is worth parting with my hard- earned dosh for?

[Guest phoenix]

Well, some like it lot. Not me. I sold it two days after I got it. To me the controls are a bad joke. Controlling your units is a royal pain in the ass. Infantry is a pathetic. And I had hoped for a real "instant action" game, but all you get is three (I think) of the same scenerios over and over.

Try the demo if you can first. If there is one that is.

[Kevin Christensen]

Panzer Elite is a deep, detailed, immersive, first person armour simulation. It stands out for the extraordinary terrain, challenging AI, fanatically detailed armour modeling, including authentic interiors and gunnery. It is the first WWII armour simulation that demands that you learn and apply authentic WWII armour tactics in order to survive. The strengths and weaknesses of US and German units are modeled carefully, including the Zeiss optics. Consequentally, playing different sides presents very different tactical challenges.

Besides the 3 instant action scenerios, there are 40+ single scenerios that you can play as the US or Germans, as well as short campaigns, or a long campaign including Tunisia, Italy, and Normandy. Up to now, I've mostly played the instant action, finally beating the very-tough "defend the church" scenerio. My brother has been working through the Tunisia campaign.

You can start playing by learning a few keyboard commands and mouse clicks, but it has a multitude of commands and difficulty options. It's easy to start to play, but has a steep learning curve to master. You can play strictly from the turret, designating targets, moving the vehicle, issuing commands to wingmen, and watching the explosions when you kill or are killed. You can also move to any crew position.

On-line support from Wings Simulations is excellent. One offical patch is out, and another expected in a few weeks. Player groups are forming for head-to-head play at the Kali server. Panzer Elite add-ons are forthcoming, with Wings committed to providing a mission disk covering the rest of the War, and a fan group planning to build models of British and Russian tanks.

Compared to Combat Mission, you have less precise control over units on your side, but it is equally involving and more immersive, due to the first person, real time play.

Both games are astonishing achievements, and I'm enjoying them both.

Kevin Christensen

Lawrence, KS

[Guest TOBRUK]

Gee Kevin, that was great. You should be a Technical Writer!

also: yes there is a demo out but I think it needs some sort of patch. I have played the demo and I agreee with Phoenix that the controls are somewhat difficult. They are also ingenious, however, and probably deserve a second look. I got tech support from Teut Weideman (sp?) who designed the game. They seem to be approaching customers in the same way BTS is; ie; good. I would try the demo first.

[Heibis]

Hi, everyone!

The Panzerelite demo that I have, simply refused to play any more when my PCs internal (Windows) clock passed some date, 13. September I think. Just readjust your date back to 01.10.1999 and you should be fine.

Heiberg

[Los]

I agree Panzer Elitre is very immersive and I've had some great LAN battles too. Lets your eally focus on tactics. It compliments CM well. Best tank sim I ever played with the posiible exception of M1TP1

Los

[Hundminen]

Ok, since I am obviously a person of less than average intelligence, can anybody please refer me to a working site where I might be able to download the DEMO?

Gratefully,

Hundminen

[Guest teutonic]

I took this one back after one day. When I have to download a patch to get it to work brings me back to panzer commander. There are still known bugs in this one. If they wanted to do their customers right they should have held on to it for another month.

I got tired of shooting he round after round and not depleting my supply, also tired of infantry(my own) running right in front of my tank as it is firing both gun and machine gun. PE also needs a movable camera view like panzer commander had.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Teutonic

Ps. Thank God for Electronic Boutiques return policy

[This message has been edited by teutonic (edited 01-12-2000).]

[Guest TOBRUK]

Hi Hundminen;

No, your IQ isn't to blame. It's just that you're so old. People your age shouldn't be playing computer games you know.

Try one of these for the demo:

(1) go to www.cnet.com > select 'games' > select 'downloads' > select 'strategy & war' > search for, or scroll for, Panzer Elite.

(2) go to www.3Dfiles.com > select 'games' from download column > selct the letter 'P' from game archive section > select Panzer Elite > select a download site.

They have PE, CM and many other games.

P.S. us old guys have to stick together

[This message has been edited by TOBRUK (edited 01-13-2000).]

[This message has been edited by TOBRUK (edited 01-13-2000).]

[dumbo]

I own Panzer Elite but I dont play it. After the first few attempts I just couldnt get my head around its controls. Not that it means its a bad game but too confusing for my addled brain.

For the same reason I uninstalled Smolenk 41, the interface was just too much for me to understand.

Maybe I am missing out on both scores but hey ho.

[CoolColJ]

What an apt name

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CCJ

BLITZ_Force

My HomePage -----> www.geocities.com/coolcolj/

[SeekStrikeDestroy]

Just a (not so) short note.

I don't want anyone with a strong interest in armor to lightly dismiss Panzer Elite.

No it isn't a buggy incomplete program. Some people couldn't run it out of the box, though in the chaotic microsoft/pc world that happens. Panzer Elite gives the PC a work out and up to date drivers are necessary. I don't blame Wings for that and no they aren't out to get anyone.

As for interface, much pleasure can be had in this game with a few commands.

Ctrl-5 to select all wingmen.

Ctrl-F to have them fire at will.

Arrow keys to drive your tank.

Click on a target

Space bar to have your gunner shoot at that target.

Hold down the right mouse button to look around.

It does take an hour or so of playing to develop situational awareness. Much of the steep learning curve is learning to think and act like a tank commander.

It is a great game/sim. It complements Combat Mission nicely. Sometimes I want to control the whole battle and sometimes I want to dive right into the thick of things.

[This message has been edited by SeekStrikeDestroy (edited 01-13-2000).]

[jgdpzr]

OK, first off, I'll admit I'm biased. I have loved Panzer Elite from day one. But I wanted to respond because I think it is important that all of us who are in to WWII gaming should support companies that strive to create quality products. Just as in the case of BTS, Wings Simulations is one of those companies. The lead designer, Teut Wiedemann, has been remarkable in his accessibility and dedication to his product.

Sure, the game is far from perfect. There are a number of niggling complaints that for some are prohibitive. Yes, the learning curve is steep. Yes, numerous bugs have forced Wings to issue multiple patches (another is on the way). One of the reasons for this is the fact that the game is fairly ambitious and is not dumbed-down for accessibility. It is a sim, true to the bone.

No other WWII tank sim has come close to creating the immersive environment Panzer Elite has. The terrain modelling is fantastic. While the graphics may not be next-generation, they are very detailed and allow the player to utilize real-world tactics to an unprecedented degree. In fact, you have to apply these tactics to enjoy success. Just as in the real world, German and American tanks require vastly different tactics.

In short, I strongly endorse Panzer Elite for two main reasons: It is so vastly superior to any other WWII tank sim; Wings is doing their absolute best to support and improve their product. I would suggest you check out their site (panzerelite.com, I think) to get a feel for the kind of feedback they are getting and to see for yourself how responsive the development staff is. You'll also discover that a number of players groups are popping up, indicative of a growing base of loyal fans.

I believe that if you are as fanatical about WWII armor as I am, and are willing to invest the time to surmount the learning curve, you will have a rewarding experience with the game. Oh yeah, one more thing, the game requires some computing muscle. It is extremely CPU-taxing. So if you have any doubts about your system's ability to handle it, definitely get the demo first (you'll have to knock back the date on your calendar as it expired in Sept. I believe). You may not be sufficiently pleased with the frame-rate if you have less than a 400 Mhz processor.

Well, pardon the rant. I just want to see good companies (and good people) succeed. I would hate to be deprived of the next installment of Panzer Elite. The East Front will be quite a blast!

[Eichmann2]

Thank you all for your comments, they have given me the (partly, but most welcome)qualified opinion I was after,butI would also welcome further comments, as this would assist me further. Any further comments would be most welcome

[dumbo]

thanks for the comments guys maybe I will reinstall it and try again. As I said before I dont htink its a bad game but when I bought it I just didnt have the time to learn a new interface.

cheers,

_dumbo (yes it is an apt name for me )

[CoolColJ]

ANd time to go download some patches

This is what I hate about PC gaming these days Once I get my Cable modem, it won't be as bad

I remeber in the good ole AMiga days - patches? WHat is that

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CCJ

BLITZ_Force

My HomePage -----> www.geocities.com/coolcolj/

[Guest Pham]

I'm not an armored warfare historian, so I can't speak for how realistic it is, but the game does rock once you get into it. It's incredibly detailed, and the controls can be re-configured to suit your needs(I have all my movement keys, brake, turret rotation, and commander view(both normal and with binoculars) all set up on the left side of my keyboard centered around the S key. My other station hotkeys are on the keypad, as are my loading orders, plus main gun and machine gun fire at will orders. I also hotkeyed my hatch close command to just B instead of ctrl-b, which I kept fumbling for during artillery strikes. Then I just use my mouse in my left hand with a button set to target next and look around in mouseview mode. I usually just play as TC(obviously). I'm mentioning this because I found the game totally inacessable with the default keys. It just never became natural enough to use as it was and I kept getting killed while fumbling for keys. Now, I can breeze through stations and do a shoot and scoot, which keeps me alive longer than my old shoot and sit like a target method with the default keys.

The only bugs that drive me nuts are the sudden 30 or so degree offset targeting that your AI gunner does at random, and the artillery strikes always taking my tracks out which screws me for the mission. Otherwise, it's been pretty bug free. Yeah, it needs a patch right off the bat, but it's way smaller than the iPanzer 20meg patch

To see an example of the detail in the game, play German long campaign first mission. First time through, follow the road your supposed to, but wait somewhere near your target and watch as the other support vehicles come along behind you. Second time through, cut cross country and follow the farther road(near the town with the AT nearby) and wait at the edge of your goal town. Trucks will roll up and unload infantry, and more tanks will come in for support. It gives a real sense of a coordinated attack. And if you'd followed orders, you'd have never seen the infantry unload. Usually you won't even see them in town as you're too far to the west, but the battle happens anyways even without spectators.

Also, same mission, for nail biting fun roll into town right off the bat and watch to zooks & MG's come at you(best to button up first and listen to the dings of bullets on your tank, or the screams and thuds if you take a hit from something bigger). If you didn't button, you may see that there's nothing quite like having a round from a bazooka fly right past your head as you're looking around town.

Infantry AI seems right on the money so far. They haven't done anything stupid that I've seen, and can be quite effective against tanks.

I know this is pretty OT beyond a general WWII setting, but the game is well worth a serious try as it's hard to get the swing of at first. Keep in mind I'm not a real Sim fan for the most part and usually suck eggs at them but I can now hold my own at PE.

There are also some epic battles to be had in the game. I lost all my wingmen in the first Normandy mission and was stuck in one spot between two buildings after my tracks were hit, but lived through the campaign by buttoning up and targeting furiously(that and major luck). Nearly every building in town was leveled and I had infantry fighting enemy infantry 30 feet or so from my tank. It was very cool. The game is worth parting cash for if you're willing to give it a while to get in to. It doesn't really hold your hand much.

Btw, My system specs are 233Mhz, 80Meg ram, and a Voodoo 2 card and the game runs fine for me with the view distance set to medium.

[Hundminen]

OK, so let me ask...

Are any of you PE players doing multi-player? Is there a decent site that support PE multi play? I find I most sims bore me with solo play after a short time.

Hundminen

[fatherof4]

Yes, I've played more than a few online games of PE and really enjoy it. I haven't had much time for it this year though.

Most people meet on Kali, server #61 now. You don't need to be a Kali member to play, you just have to start a game in 15 min or you get disconnected.

Like others said, it is a lot of fun when it works. I'm sorry to say that 2 vs. 2 games are not very stable in Kali. If you can trade IP addresses, most of the problems go away though. www.Wingssimulations.com has said they will be releasing a MP patch soon that will fix some of the stability/security issues that have come up.

If you do get PE, I'd recommend you join an online battalion. I'm in the 4th Armor Division ( http://us4tharmordiv.tripod.com/ ). Tanking with your buddies is definitely a lot more fun.

Glenn

a.k.a. SSgt. fatherof4, 4AD37TB, 2nd Platoon

[pcelt]

It is worth adding, as a further large plus, that a dedicated Development Group supported

by Wings has been set up and have begun to exploit the open architecture of the game to enhance and expand it.

For example the group is currently working on the development of a new Campaign based on the British and Canadian armour's role in Europe 44/45 and modelling British tanks and vehicles with relevant maps and scenarios etc. This will all be freely downloadable and is only the first of many possible addons.(Desert 41/42, France 1940 etc)

I think Wings have plans for PE2 based on the Eastern Front.

[civdiv]

PE has massive potential, but was buggy as hell when it was released, and is still buggy. Even after 3 patches and an install checking tool (Itself patched twice), many people still can't run the game. In simple terms, it was released too early. I kick myself for not returning it, I stupidly waited for the patch. It's sort of a love-hate relationship for me. Everytime I play it I curse Wings, but then I went ahead and put together the players PE FAQ found on the Wings web site.

It is fun, and very immersive. It is, IMO, the best WWII tank sim, but it's still way behind M1TP2. I know, many are going to say that M1TP2 was buggy when it was released. Well, MP fixed that, and the current, patched PE is buggier than M1TP2 when M1TP2 was released.

Probably the biggest turn-off is the lack of documentation. The manual is fairly close to being the worst I have ever seen. Combine that with the steep learning curve, and you have chaos. If you stick with it, it becomes enjoyable, despite it's many flaws (I haven't even touched on them.). The control system has been criticized, and I must admit that initially I was dubious of controlling a tank with the mouse. But having gotten used to it, it works well for me. It's actually a very good thing it works so well, because it seems most controllers do not work with PE.

Now, I still play it, and I like it, but I didn't shell out $45 to be a Beta tester. I hate supporting companies that publish unfinished products. If us gamers allow this trend, the game companies will continue to take advantage of it.

[Richard]

Well I would have to disagree with you.

The manual I found fairly well done and the

game ran flawlessly on about every pesons machine that I know of. Of course with any game involved 3D acceleration and high system specs and 3D cards sometimes folks system specs can cause various problems.

However this game was not rushed in any manner of speaking. I know Teut and I think he is proud of what he did.

In fact the thing he probably regretted the most was not including a tutorial, and THAT was because of time constraints.

[Aacooper]

PE is neat, but it's not essential for a couple of reasons:

Buggy graphics -- no one mentioned this, but there's annoying clipping (trees in the distance suddenly appear) and missing tank exterior parts.

Little feedback -- you can't tell when the enemy's pinging shots off your armor, and you can't tell where your HE rounds are going or ANY indication of AP rounds (you'd think you'd occasionally make a spark or something on a ricochet).

Mission difficulty -- if your tank is knocked out, or immobilized, you can't jump to another tank and fight on. Since you're forced to lead from the front...

Scripted missions -- hurt replay.

I haven't been a PE fanatic since I bought it, because of the aforementioned problems, but that's my $.02.

[civdiv]

AAcooper, I've got to agree with all your points, they are major problems but I didn't want to go into too much detail. Add to that the tanks driving through each other, seams between the graphic tiles, massive pop-up terrain.

Richard, come on!!! The most detailed aspect of PE is the guns and gun sights, the manual doesn't even mention them!! How do you back up? Don't look in your manual, it's not in there. What do all the little buttons on the tactical map do? You won't find the answer in the manual. How do I call for artillery? Artillery isn't even mentioned in the manual.

And you don't see problems people have with running the game or their controllers. You have been to Wings message board, right? You will find several hundred there.

I don't mean to flame you but the facts are, and the reviews agree, that it's buggy as-all-git-out. It's got great potential, and many gamers are contributing already to making many mods, similiar to the great things that are being done with the CC series. But it will be a while before, again, IMO, it's worth the cost.