Grisha Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 I was just thinking about the many battles that occurred in the Russian front: Smolensk '41, Moscow '41, Sevastopol '42, Kharkov '42, Stalingrad '42/'43, Kharkov '43, Kursk '43, Ukraine '43, Byelorussia '44, etc etc etc. Then I thought of playing these battles within the operation format in CM, and it hit me that this will be awesome! Imagine units of Totenkopf making that final thrust toward Prokhorovka/Oboyan, slamming into elements of the 5th Guards Tank Army, resulting in a series of vicious tank battles! Perfect for a CM operation! Or, how about the final push by the Germans in Stalingrad to oust the last stubborn remnants of Chuikov's 61st Army along the right bank of the Volga? Or, the race to the Don in late '43? The scenarios are endless I bet CM2 is where the operation really shines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 Man I hope so. I'm looking forward to a nice Korsun Pocket campaign meself. ------------------ "Wer zuerst schiesst hat mehr von Leben" Moto-(3./JG11 "Graf") Bruno Weiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lparkh Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 I really hope they allow operations across discontinious patches of land (ala SP series or WF series). That is different place per a scenario. Leaving aside things they are against like experience gain I think this would really open more interesting operational possibilities (whether playing across extended period of time, or space). Anyone heard that they might allow this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 I just hope that Cossacks are available. I have seen pics of horse soldiers with sabers drawn charging along side of T34s. The interesting thing about the Russian front is that it is an interesting mix of the old with the new. Both sides made extensive use of horses both to as cavalry and as transport of cargo/arty. I also hope that the editor will permit more control for us gamers. There is a trend with the current BMP mods to add more details to the vehicles and troops. I hope that instead of having vehicle side we have both sides to a single vehicle plus we can assign specific BMPs to specific vehicles. In this way we can remark vehicles with individual numbers, markings, slogans, etc. MikeT ------------------ "Quando omni flunkus moritati" - Motto of Possum Lodge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 I dunno, but you said something off the cuff that made me think. And I rather imagine this was debated at some point with CM1, but hey, where are the horses? Now, the cows I understand. Like dogs, cats, and French Can Can girls, they are not necessarilly important to overall historical accuracy. But horses... I dunno, a good argument can be made that the Germans, if not the Ruskies, were rather dependent upon horse drawn transportation for supplies, guns, and as you've pointed out with regard to the Soviets, the Cossacks. Thinking along that line, ski troops also would seem to me to be important. Especially as a part of the Finnish/Soviet conflict. Have to get out me sex wax. And ofcourse, once the program elements are in place for the little four legged critters, it's only a short step from there (how's that for an understatement), to put this engine to use in simulating 19th Century warfare. ------------------ "Wer zuerst schiesst hat mehr von Leben" Moto-(3./JG11 "Graf") Bruno Weiss [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 10-28-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted October 28, 2000 Author Share Posted October 28, 2000 Yeah, I forgot about the Cossacks! That would be cool. And cavalry was quite effective in both mud, and snow conditions too. Iparkh, as far as I know BTS have stated they will not model those types of formats. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. [This message has been edited by Grisha (edited 10-28-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devils Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 Stalingrad= tractor factory, grain silo, railyard, oh my! ------------------ I'm sorry, we haven't the facilities to take all of you prisoner. Was there anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 I think CM2 Russian Front is an Excellent Idea. CM2 will need a lot more variety in building geometries. In addition if heavy street fighting is to be modeled I expect some coding challenges will be associated with large building interior fighting. Present model does not include interior walls, stairwells etc. Could be interesting. Personal Opinion here...CM2 Campaign Layer: I think it would be interesting if BTS expanded upon operations in CM2. Something akin to Close Combat V’s Campaign layer would be an interesting addition, with the stipulation that a campaign game editor is intrinsic to the game. The campaign layer could be a simplified version of an operational level wargame akin to a small game of Operational Art of War. A player commands a division or Corps at the operational\strategic level. For example ISS Panzer Korps Counter Attacks around Kharkov Winter 42-43...German relief attempt at Korsun...Segments of the Stalingrad Battles...etc. Operational\strategic layer moves are handled on a strategic layer map. Combat resolution at the strategic\operational level is handled via small unit combat actions on a formal Combat Mission map. A certain amount of abstraction would be required to keep actual tactical battle sizes manageable\playable. So perhaps a battalion at the operational level is modeled as a combined arms company during combat resolution on the tactical level. Results of the combined arms company tactical battle would be considered to be reflective of the entire battalions performance. Attrition within individual units is tracked between battle rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted October 28, 2000 Share Posted October 28, 2000 Jeff, you are a damned genius... If CM2 could do that, I would pee my pants with wild abandon.... BTS? think about it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepitis Posted October 29, 2000 Share Posted October 29, 2000 Mmmmmmm,NICE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rommel22 Posted October 29, 2000 Share Posted October 29, 2000 I am looking forward to the opening battles of 41 and 42. Stalingrad mainly. I want to change history (in the game) and break out. Or play one of those not so well known battles in tactical level that cm is designed for. There is an account (forgot what book) where the russians tried to recapture a bridge which the germans where holding on to. Well The russians launched about 3 attacks all failed and after the 3rd attack there were so many bodies and burning tanks that the russians couldn't even get trough the piles of bodies. Cm2 will be great! ------------------ "If you are a Republican under 30 you have no heart! If you are not a Republican and over 30, you have no brain!" Winston Churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted October 30, 2000 Share Posted October 30, 2000 I want to see the last stand of the German Heavy Panzer Bn. 501 (I believe that is the right number) in operation Bagration. 26 Tigers accounted for at least 128 Russian tanks. WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Balaban Posted October 30, 2000 Share Posted October 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Duquette: Personal Opinion here...CM2 Campaign Layer: I think it would be interesting if BTS expanded upon operations in CM2. Something akin to Close Combat V’s Campaign layer would be an interesting addition, with the stipulation that a campaign game editor is intrinsic to the game. The campaign layer could be a simplified version of an operational level wargame akin to a small game of Operational Art of War. A player commands a division or Corps at the operationalstrategic level. For example ISS Panzer Korps Counter Attacks around Kharkov Winter 42-43...German relief attempt at Korsun...Segments of the Stalingrad Battles...etc. Operationalstrategic layer moves are handled on a strategic layer map. Combat resolution at the strategicoperational level is handled via small unit combat actions on a formal Combat Mission map. A certain amount of abstraction would be required to keep actual tactical battle sizes manageableplayable. So perhaps a battalion at the operational level is modeled as a combined arms company during combat resolution on the tactical level. Results of the combined arms company tactical battle would be considered to be reflective of the entire battalions performance. Attrition within individual units is tracked between battle rounds. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So if I understand it, not only will the operation run serially but parallely too? The outcome of one battle on one of your sides determains what you will face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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