Guest Kettle Black Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 To Captain Foobar. Just want to make sure that 1. I can read and comprehend what you wrote in the "long rant" thread and 2. You have any idea of what you are saying. The way I read it was this: People who doesn't have English as their native language shouldn't be allowed to express any critical views on this BBS. The main reason for this is that since this is a US BBS (well BTS are in the US anyway, the server could be in Uzbekistan for all you know) and they might make arses of themselves because they do not fully grasp what they are writing. As long as you are from an English-speaking country (or rather an English-speaking part of a country) you are allowed to make critical comments on this board. They, at least, are not "coming here and behaving like that". They are instead already here and "behaving like that" which is much better. Sometimes these foreign pests even have the nerve to claim that they were misunderstood because of their lack of familiarity with the One Language! I don't agree with AH64D's views on CM and I don't think he gives a toss whether I do either. His grasp of the One Language seems fine to me. His opinion comes across 5 by 5 to me. Since this language issue seems to be problem for you I have come up with some solutions: 1. Everyone posts in their native language. No room for misunderstanding then? Oh I forgot that apparently some people who work in Drive-in restaurants in your country has a bad grasp of English. And I've read several posts (maybe not here, but there are other dark places on the net, some of them <shudder> are not even located in the US<gasp>) by Real Americans that were unintelligble too. 2. Everyone who wants to post on this board has to take a test in English first. I can write one, I've worked as a translator so I have some tests lying around. Nothing but a perfect score is accepted. That should sort things out. 3. We can hire some proofreaders that reads everything that's posted here. If you want, I can proofread every post you've made and post any errors I come across. "I say this with the utmost respect for everyone involved, and as this is an international community we have here, I will try to be thoughtful with my choice of words. " You failed. Miserably. Respect? For whom? In short, Captain Foobar, your post pissed me off. Immensely. Your right to be as narrow-minded as you are does not exceed the right to try to express an opinion in a foreign language. And the only authority here on what can and cannot be posted here is BTS. Not you. Not me. Thank you. Kettle Black "Det här är inte en förolämpning. På något språk." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamse Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Kettle Black, thank you for expressing things i couldnt. "Det är sannerligen inte en förolämpning på något språk." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Some hasty oil on these waters: Non-native English speakers occasionally sound rude without intending to, if only because their mode of expression can be (understandably) abrupt. As would I, if I were attempting to post in Russian. Perhaps the thought was only that the board should be alerted to posters whose primary language is not English, so that allowances could be made. Still a curious, if more benign, suggestion. More Americans should have the experience of being a foreigner, especially in the remoter corners where the presence of English can no longer be assumed. It is very humbling. I can't believe you called him a något, though. Fighting words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Just for the record I think Mark IV has gotten Foobar's intention correctly. Sometimes even being a native English speaker doesn't protect you from not getting your intentions across . FWIW I thought AH64D got his points across very well and that his attitude etc was not due to misunderstandings of language but that the attitude conveyed was precisely that attitude he holds. Also I DO think the board needs to be much more non-English speaker friendly. I DO however think it is rude when people start speaking in German or French or whatever so that they can't be understood by others. If you don't want others on the board to understand you then you shouldn't post here.. also, ESPECIALLY, on this board I'd imagine the level of understanding of German is very high . It takes a lot of courage for a non-English speaker unsure of his grasp of English to post publicly for the first time and if people jump all over them simply because they say something poorly then they'll be scared away. Fionn " I'm a non-native English speaker too damnit. Learnt the damn language 15 years ago but still think in Flemish" Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 I can't believe you called him a något, though. Fighting words. [smiley removed for an ethical reason] Oh, the "något" was not too bad but I had to dive to my Swedish dictionary to find an explanation for "en förolämpning". For the benefit of other non-Swedish speakers here, the last line of Kettle's post reads: "This is not an insult. In any language". (Or at least that is how I understood it, Swedish was never my best subject in school) - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s bakker Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Foreign readers/posters arise ! Maybe we should make clear how many 'non-usa' there are here. Let's kick the bucket: I'm dutch. (And no, i'm not wearing wooden shoes ). grtz s bakker PS: er zitten vast nog meer nederlanders te wachten op CM ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 I'm not American. I'm Canadian, eh? That what this is aboot. Kettle Black, I'm only 14 so I'm sure your already dsiregarding my opinion. But do you seriously think that your saying this helps anything? Soon enough Steve will close this thread (and rightly so) but before then I'd just like to say that no one will benefit from this thread. In fact I'm sure some people will even be offended by it. This board is supposed to be about Combat Mission: Beyond Overload. A game. A game. And now we spend most of our time writing long posts about how we don't agree with someones opinion of something. Until we get more on topic threads I suggest we all ignore threads like this. Hell, I think I'm gonna ignore the board altogether until the game comes out or I think there is something worth posting about. Obviously everything is being misinterpreted now so I'm going. Colin out ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kettle Black Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> For the benefit of other non-Swedish speakers here, the last line of Kettle's post reads: "This is not an insult. In any language". (Or at least that is how I understood it, Swedish was never my best subject in school) - Tommi<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Zactly right. Move to the top of the class tommi It can be challenging to express yourself in a foreign language. No one wants to be misunderstood when they post here or anywhere else. Mark IV, I like the way you think, even if your grasp of the Swedish language seems... questionable Thanks Bamse. Nice to see some fellow Swedes here. Fionn. Good point about communicating your views in any language. It was the comment "coming here and behaving like that" that set me off. I've heard it before, in other circumstances, and I hate it. Hope this thread turns into a positive one about our different home countries rather than a "slam the americans" thing which I didn't have any intention of starting. I also hope that Mark IV's and Fionn's interpretations of Foobar's post are correct. I still think it is a bad idea to categorize posters by country though and would argue against it. Kettle Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AH64D Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Fionn, i said multiple times i had choosen the wrong words to express my ideas. I also said i was sorry and apologized multiple times. If you think it's fun to be used as an "example" all the time, i can tell you one thing...it's not. There's nothing more i can do but to apologize, which i did. Now get over it. Get a life. If this sounds rude to you, you're right. It's ment that way. Why? Because it really pisses me off that people saying nothing but good about CM are all cool and are allowed to **** on people disagreeing with them. Damn...no freedom of speech, not belonging to "one of the good guys". It's oke to "enjoy" the ww2-era, but trying to rule this board the way Germany was ruled back then is a bit too much for me. I always enjoyed your posts, straight to the point. I appreciate that. But if you keep using ME as an "bad example", then ww4 is about to errupt. Should you take these final words seriously? No, prolly not, but don't piss me off. It doesn't make ME happy, and it doesn't make you more liked (maybe by some, but i won't go there). The chopper that does BOOOOOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Alright then....How about we don't argue about this damn frickin' thing and talk about Combat Mission!!! That's why we're all here. To talk about Combat Mission. So let's do that. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kettle Black Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Colin: I'm only 14 so I'm sure your already dsiregarding my opinion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Why should I disregard it? Your opinion is as viable as anyones. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> But do you seriously think that your saying this helps anything? Soon enough Steve will close this thread (and rightly so) but before then I'd just like to say that no one will benefit from this thread. In fact I'm sure some people will even be offended by it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I hope some people who may be reluctant to post here because of their lack of language skills can be encouraged to express themselves and that will/might benefit this board. How many 14 year olds (as an example) from Germany, Sweden or France read this board and don't post because they fear they will be slammed on for their English grammar? My intention was not to offend anyone, not you, not even Cap Foobar but to get an explanation from the Cap and state my opinion about the matter. His post offended me and obviously some others. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> This board is supposed to be about Combat Mission: Beyond Overload. A game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Absolutely agree with you and for the most part the board is. Therefore it would be wrong to choke people with interesting views just because they aren't good at writing in English. Hence my post. It does not make CM a better game. It was about an opinion stated on the board. Kettle Black [This message has been edited by Kettle Black (edited 02-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanE Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 I think most of the people here are aware that there will be some "translation problems". I gladly accept this (otherwise I would have no idea what people are saying), and I always keep this in mind when reading the messages. My advice to AH64D would be: Take your knowledge and your friends and make your own game. With your demands mentioned earlier, this new game would have to be the best game ever created. And since your new game would sell so many copies, not only would you have the best game ever made, you would also have a lot of money. End of problem. [This message has been edited by DanE (edited 02-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Colin, the little hosehead, just got messed up, eh. What he meant, was, that nobody was to respect his opinion because he is a backbacon eating and beer drinking Canadian, not that he is 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauhaus Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Again, I'll say this as I did in another post. I'm sure people will disagree or get pissed off, but I don't really care. This is becoming so juvenile. This is a message board. That is all it is. If what someone says on this board inflames you so much, there is a problem. This is not life. It shouldn't bother you to the point of minor irritation. Once the browser is shut down, so should your feelings about the post. I mean, there is so much more in life to be concerned about. A message board for a game shouldn't be one of those things. This is silly. Who cares what anybody else on this board feels? Are the majority of us going to get together outside this board and experience life together? Worry about you families, worry about life, worry about school and work.....but a message board? c'mon!! This isn't life and if people consider it to be.....you need to get a life. It's a message board for a game. Long after this game has run its course, we still have to go on living. Everyone just chill, grow up and stop this stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauhaus Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 i have no idea how this one happened....so sorry. double posting is my life. [This message has been edited by bauhaus (edited 02-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Pender Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Bauhaus, I agree it's only a game and it is not real life at least to us forum junkies. Everyone, Keep in mind that this game is real life for Steve and Charles. Take care John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauhaus Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by John Pender: Bauhaus, I agree it's only a game and it is not real life at least to us forum junkies. Everyone, Keep in mind that this game is real life for Steve and Charles. Take care John<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> believe me, I would never dismiss the hard work that is being put into this game. I'm just tired of ready the petty little posts that have been dominating the board. It's a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bauhaus Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 sorry, happy fingers. double post [This message has been edited by bauhaus (edited 02-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 AH64D, Take a chill pill and realise when you are NOT being insulted. You stated you are NOT American. Foobar's comments were initiated, in part, by your not being American. THUS the fact that your post's clarity was NOT marred by English not being your native language IS an important point to make. It is NOT singling you out a a "bad example". It is merely using you as a PERTINENT example. All I said was ... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> FWIW I thought AH64D got his points across very well and that his attitude etc was not due to misunderstandings of language but that the attitude conveyed was precisely that attitude he holds. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> NONE of that is a slam on you or an insult or anything like that. So... a) do NOT go looking for things that aren't there. don't threaten me with "WW4" over some misunderstanding that's totally in your head. Lastly some good advice is not to try initiate something you wouldn't survive. Now, I'm going to go out and watch Toy Story. Hopefully you'll see you misinterpreted what I said and say so publicly by the time I get back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 What's the big deal here! The CM community is obviously a global one, so let us let it be. It's not like I gonna go hop in Fionn's bed someday. Ha! We'll probably never ever see one another in person, unless they come up with a CM convention. Sorry Fionn, had to use someone as an example. BTW, CombatHQ rocks! Granted non-English speaking people do have a hard time communicating their thoughts in English. I knew a girl from Paris that was an Exchange student here in my town in mid-western U.SA.. Her English was decent, but her delivery was awkward. But we understood her! So there! ------------------ "I want you to remember that...no bastard ever won a war...by dying for his country...He won it...by making the other poor dumb bastard...die for his country."--George S. Patton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted February 9, 2000 Share Posted February 9, 2000 Personally I think AH64D has a point. This board should be big enough for believers and non believers of the CM gospel. Personally I'm a believer but if I were to hire someone on this board for "my firm" I'd go for someone who had the daring to speak his mind and stick by it. I might not agree with you AH64D but I admire your honesty. I've pre-ordered months ago but yes the gfx's could be better and no it wouldn't stop any 'puter with a decent video card. The gaming expirience would be better but not crucial, realism is still more important. Hilsen en som ikke vil noen noe ondt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 10, 2000 Share Posted February 10, 2000 OK, official crap to follow here... I for one am VERY sensitive to foreign language difficulties. Some of the emails I receive I have to reread several times to understand, but I am always happy to do so because I love the Global Village type environment. I also have a very thick skin from almost 30,000 posts on here. If a post comes up here that is critical and it is clear that the poster does not have a full grasp of the English language I (and nearly everybody else) cuts the person a great deal of slack. In fact, I and others have even defended such people against overly sensitive English speaking people. SOME of the problems that have cropped up, ironically, have been because a non-native English speaker took something another poster said the wrong way. There was even one misunderstanding that was a result of two non-native English speaking posters not understanding each other The point is that if someone can put together a roughly understandable sentence to get a point across, they are welcome here in every way possible. But the post that started this whole mess does not fit into that category. The poster in question, IMHO, intended his post to be confrontational in a negative way, as well as insulting. The excuse of "English is not my first language" isn't believeable in my opinion (remember, I have read all 30,000 posts here!!). And as for Howard's point, critical posts are welcomed if they have a positive purpose and are not deliberately insulting. There are thousands of such posts here, and many hundreds of things have been added/changed in CM as a result. So I think there is no shortage of critical discussion. Don't confuse critical with insulting, there is a difference. One has value, the other has no place here. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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