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M3A1 Crew Casualties (Bug?)


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In version 1.04 the following “fixes” were made:

* M3A1 scout car has 3 crewmen (driver and 2 gunners).

* M3A1 halftrack, M5 halftrack, and M3A1 scout car can still fire one MG after suffering one crew casualty.

However, while playing version 1.05, I’ve noticed that the M3A1 scout car will not target and will not fire after having suffered one crew casualty (even after recovering from shock). I have not experimented with any other halftracks, so I do not know if this problem is isolated to just the scout car.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it a “bug” in 1.05, or am I simply the victim of some unlucky turn of events, like damaged guns? This has happened to me in two or three quick battles since installing 1.05, so I have by no means performed any “exhaustive” tests on this.

Any information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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"One lesson I have learned in combat is 'there is no fox hole better than the one you are in'." Staff Sergeant H.F. Muschamp, 133rd Inf., Italy 1943

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Are you sure the vehicle still had ammo for BOTH mg's? If not, perhaps the remaining gunner was the one for the mg out of ammo?

Just a thought.

BeWary

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"Liberty or Death?" Make it "Victory or Pretty Damned Badly Wounded", and I'm yours. - a prospective recruit during the American Revolution.

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Guest Germanboy

Well I would be quite interested in that as well. In all my games as soon as a Bren gun carrier or a HT takes a casualty they can just be rolled towards the end of the map because they refuse to target anything. I saw that this was supposed to be a bug for some of these at least, and that was supposed to be fixed in 1.05. Any comments from BTS on that?

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Andreas

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I am not sure, but my guess has to do with being buttoned. I believe that HTs & Brens can only fire when unbuttoned, and since all vehicles stay buttoned after one crew casualty, it follows that they will not fire.

WWB

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Guest Germanboy

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wwb_99:

since all vehicles stay buttoned after one crew casualty, it follows that they will not fire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah - now the question is whether that is realistic. I don't know. If in reality they dealt with it by just taking on another crewman, then the case is solved, since we can not do that in CM. Any comments?

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Andreas

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I bitched about this in a post a few weeks ago but it got no notice.

I'm pretty sure it's a bug. The readme clearly states that the .30 cal should be able to fire with one crew causualty, so the fact that it is buttoned should not be a factor. Actually, I can get them to target enemy units, and they will keep that enemy unit targeted at long as it has LOS, but it will never fire, even with almost full ammo.

I actually have a saved game file that proves this.

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Most people assume that the M in US vehicle designations means "Model". Thus, the Medium Tank M4 Sherman would be the "Model #4" Medium tank. This is incorrect. The M actually stands for "Mortality" and the number represents the life expectancy of the vehicle in minutes. - Bullethead

[This message has been edited by Vanir (edited 10-21-2000).]

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Jackson

I have seen this happen in several scenarios

also, where the veh. you mentioned will not

fire after losing one crew member. As the

readme file indicates that those vehicles

should be able to fire with one crew member

gone, it appears to be a bug to me as well.

It is something I hope BTS will look into for

future patch. Thanks for bringing up this

issue again.

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Yeh, same problem for me with the M3A1 Scout Car. It has 3 crew, 2 MG's had hardly fired its MG's but as soon as it took a crew casualty, you can still target but it never fires either of the bleedin' machineguns. Very frustrating.

Hopefully BTS will either respond & explain why you can't use 1 of the 2 remaining MG's or perhaps acknowledge there is a bug and confirm a fix is on its way, we hope.

Regards

Jim R.

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Steve to Combat Mission community:

"If it's not in Combat Mission it never happened in reality"... nah that's not what I meant

"If it's not in Combat Mission then the chances of it happening were miniscule"... hmmm, not quite

"If it's not in Combat Mission then we didn't have the resources to code it"... rats, we've employed more people now

"If it's not in Combat Mission, STIFF SH*T!"... yeh, that's what I meant to say :)

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Guest Madmatt

I still need to check this out as it should be able to still fire the one MG.

Before v1.05 halftracks (with 2 mg's) would not be able to fire after a single hit and I argued for it to be added and it was. The original thinking was that after watching your buddy get taken out you might not be so quick to expose yourself to fire. My argument against this was quite colorful wink.gif and eventually convincing but perhaps the M3A1 got left out when this behavior was changed. I will look into it.

If it turns out that they can not fire then I will mention this to Charles and see if it was a simple omission or something else.

Madmatt

[This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 10-22-2000).]

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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackson:

I’ve noticed that the M3A1 scout car will not target and will not fire after having suffered one crew casualty (even after recovering from shock)...

Has anyone else experienced this?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've noticed this also with the wasp and MMG carriers. Both have a crew of three and if you suffer one casualty they will not fire. I mentioned this in the flamethrower thread, but got no response.

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/011648.html

My initial thought, at least regarding the wasp, was that CM had the crew strength wrong for the wasp. My only reference that mentions the wasp, the Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II, said the British wasp should have a crew of two and the Canadian wasp a crew of three. (The Canadians combined the two internal fuel tanks into one and mounted it on the outside making room for a third crew member who fired either a machine gun or mortar). I was playing the British at the time but the crew strength was listed as three not two. I reasoned that perhaps the strength report was just listed wrong and in fact it was two which would reasonably prevent it from firing with the loss of one crew. But then I saw the same behavior in the mmg carriers. I think this may be a bug.

[This message has been edited by Reno (edited 10-22-2000).]

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Madmatt,

I ran some tests over the weekend, and the M3A1 HTs and scout cars will not fire with a crew casualty. The CM 1.05 readme states that this was fixed in 1.04, and as I recall, it was. Now it’s back to the way it was originally.

I’m pretty sure it has to do with buttoning-up. Thanks for addressing this issue. Anything that you can do to resolve this very frustrating situation would be greatly appreciated.

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"One lesson I have learned in combat is 'there is no fox hole better than the one you are in'." Staff Sergeant H.F. Muschamp, 133rd Inf., Italy 1943

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Guest Germanboy

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mother Theresa:

Would be neat if you could us crew squads to 'refit' lost crew from units. Or if abandoned guns/vech. could be refit with crewman

-Mother Theresa

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The short answer to that is that 'abandoned' means that the gun/vehicle has taken some minor damage that makes it unusable during a battle (e.g. an HT could have holes in the radiator or a gun's sight might be smashed). It can be repaired inbetween battles during ops. If you want the long answer, try doing a search.

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Andreas

<a href="http://www.geocities.com/greg_mudry/sturm.html"<Der Kessel></a > Home of 'Die Sturmgruppe' Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission

[This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 11-03-2000).]

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  • 2 weeks later...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jackson:

I'm bumping this thread because there was never a final response from Madmatt or BTS. This is the number one problem that I would like to see addressed in the next/final patch.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto!

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  • 2 months later...
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