Waxx_IK Posted September 30, 2000 Share Posted September 30, 2000 I was just wondering if there would be sharpshooters, sniper, or both in CM2. I know snipers were used extensively by both combatants, so which will be included? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted September 30, 2000 Share Posted September 30, 2000 "Extensively" is somewhat misleading. In a war involving millions of men and women on each side, there were probably less than, what, a hundred all told. On the other hand, they do have a certain coolness factor. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScoutPL Posted September 30, 2000 Share Posted September 30, 2000 Do a search for sniper threads. This subject has been discussed thoroughly a number of times. I think you'll find plenty of reasons why snipers will not be included. It's all related to the scope of CM and the diffences between snipers and sharpshooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkfrog_uk Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 a sharp shooter is a normal soldier who happens to be a good shot, a sniper is a soldier who has been trained specificley for the job. seeing as thair was no a sniper school or other such training set up untill the 60s, the best you can get in CM is a sharpshooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Just use a Crack or Elite sharpshooter and imagine it's a sniper. ------------------ Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses. -Dudley Do-right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Guys, I have to disagree here. Snipers made a BIG difference during the fight of Stallingrad. Near the end of the conflict, entire German platoon refuses to fight, afraid to see their head explode from a bullet coming from nowhere. What I'm trying to say here is that you can't reproduce the fight of Stallingrad without them. Study Stalligrad war and you will agree with me on that ... pretty sure about it! Hitler himself worried about this point. If Big Time Software want to reproduce Stallingrad campaign, they will have to insert sniper in the game…because they had a terrible impact in this conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by frag: Guys, I have to disagree here. Snipers made a BIG difference during the fight of Stallingrad. Near the end of the conflict, entire German platoon refuses to fight, afraid to see their head explode from a bullet coming from nowhere. What I'm trying to say here is that you can't reproduce the fight of Stallingrad without them. Study Stalligrad war and you will agree with me on that ... pretty sure about it! Hitler himself worried about this point. If Big Time Software want to reproduce Stallingrad campaign, they will have to insert sniper in the game…because they had a terrible impact in this conflict.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Why not? Just make an urban scenario where one side has a couple of sharpshooters and one or two infantry platoons against an attacker with an only infantry force. Sharpshooters in CM are excellent to surpress infantry units, bur as there are many other lecker targets around it is just a waste of resources to use them in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Der Unbekannte Jäger Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 The whole theory is though is that sharpshooters are regulars that are good shots and thus are still attached to their squads to some extent and travel with them. Snipers are independant and will go out and "hunt", they receive special training etc. They would be out hunting infantry squads on their own. Now yes the US did not have a sniper school or anything like it till what 1965? But other countries did actively use snipers, such as the big two in question in CM2, Russia and Germany. Just my 2 cents... ------------------ "I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Shugger, what you say make sense, but I think a sniper unit must be able to hide LOT more efficiently and shot at a greater distance than the sharpshooter does in CM. It's praticly impossible for a unit to see where a sniper is shooting from at the first shot (it's why sniper change position between every shot). Try to shoot a bullet with a sharpshooter in CM, and you will be spotted as if you shake a big yellow flag up your head. One turn after and you are dead meat... So, if Big Time Software implement sniper. Just construct a very stealthy sharpshooter, with greater accuracy, at longer range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Being a sniper involves hiding for hours on end, waiting for someone of value to shoot. Snipers aren't support units like machineguns – that's what sharpshooters are for. I can't imagine a sniper scenario being very exciting. David ------------------ ...the pilot was able to circle and make a safe belly landing. According to O'Neal, 'this guy jumped out and ran up to me, shouting, "Give me a gun, quick! I know right where that Kraut s.o.b. is and I'm gonna get him".' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 A sniper scenario...probably not all that exciting. Having a sniper in a church bell tower keeping a platoon from advancing up a particular road for fear of having their brains adorning the pavement, while the rest of the battle rages on elsewhere on the map...now that's a nice feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Croda, you're right ... you just said exactly what a sniper is able to do. Try to do it with a sharpshooter in cm ... it will not work. Here is the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Hi Frag and all Frag, so you too have problems with your sharpshooter being spotted seemingly to easy in the game. There have been many threads in the last two weeks which covered how to use them effectivly and I can only recommend to check them out, but basically it is: a) distance to the closest enemy unit a position which offers good cover I don't know if a sniper is harder to spot than a sharpshooter, assuming both have the same equipment. Perhaps a sharpshooter with an higher experiance level will perform better. Croda, if you're tempted to make such a scenario where lots of infantry attack a position with fewer infantry and lots of sharpshooters I can't wait to lay my hands on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 you know, I'm not scenario maker (haven't tried my hand at it just yet) but it an interesting idea. Maybe I'll give it a shot if I get a chance though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted October 3, 2000 Share Posted October 3, 2000 Shugger, maybe I will give a chance to them by trying a Crack or Elite sharshooter. Thanks for the tip... [This message has been edited by frag (edited 10-03-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonicc Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Going through my list of books I wish I could get right now, I came across a listing for "The German Sniper 1914-1945" by Senich, 445pp, Complete history of the German sniper in both workl wars, his technique, theory, camouflage, and most improtantly his weapons. Extensive coverage of the rifles used and the different scope mountings and designs. Also includes first person accounts from German sniper veterans who were masters at their art. Haven't come across anything from the Russian side yet. Thought this might be a good place to start some research for CM2. This listing is from Warfield books inc @ http://www.sonic.net/~bstone/eastfront/ground.html It is also a couple of months old and I have not checked if they still have it in stock. ------------------ Teutonicc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basebal351 Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 In the close-in street fighting in the Russain campaign, snipers WERE often close to other units. They couldn't go off alone in the city...they'd have been slaughtered. Someone brought up the point that snipers can keep an entire squad or platoon of soldiers suppressed, or even in hiding. I haven't even had a KILL with a sharpshooter in CM yet, let alone SUPRESS a squad of men!! I can see a sniper holding down a platoon of men, as a friendly squad sneaks up on both sides to flank, and even encirlcle enemy units. There WERE snipers on the Eastern front, and with some having over 300+ KILLS, I'd say they played a pretty big part!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 4, 2000 Share Posted October 4, 2000 Like David said, I think the question isn't whether snipers played a part in the war, but whether their part would fit into the time scale of an average CM battle. Your average sniper would take a few hours to find a suitable hidey hole, take another few hours to wait for a suitable target, take the shot, and then move. Having never been a sniper, I'll admit that my knowledge of this subject comes completely from second-hand sources and may be hearsay, but I can't picture this being much fun to simulate. ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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