SS_PanzerLeader Posted May 10, 2000 Share Posted May 10, 2000 Well Jsut got done playing CE against the AI and did exceptionally well Here are the results I was germs Germs 49 casualties (13kia) ) 2 Ko veh allies 174 cas (54Kia 22 captured 3 mortars destroyed 5 vehicles KO men ok Germs 213 allies 36 Final score Total victory Germs 88 Allies 12 ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out [This message has been edited by SS_PanzerLeader (edited 05-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted May 10, 2000 Share Posted May 10, 2000 {Alert for Spoiled Children} I played the Germans in "Valley" last night and won without doing much. My panzer was freewheeling at the end going up and down the hills till the US surrendered. I lost the 75mm ATG early too to a gun hit. I just played the US now in valley and mopped the germans. I believe the panzer was taken out by a US squad somehow (none in the vicinity were engineers or had rifle grenades). I cant tell from Valley if the AI is smarter. General impressions are that the smoke seems to slow my machine down. Smoke is "blocky" too. PII400/16MBPCIBlaster/128MBmem. Think Ill install direct7 before playing CE as US to see if the AI is better. I have played CE so much against humans and AI that if there is a difference it should show there. Other impression. very good game. The screenshots on TGN seem better than what I see on my computer but I aint into flash as much as realism and simulation. No bugs yet. I cant believe I have a job interview monday. I have to bone up on my robotics skills and this is really bad timing. Lewis [This message has been edited by Username (edited 05-12-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted May 10, 2000 Author Share Posted May 10, 2000 Hmmn formatting messed up that aar have to fix it Lewis I noticed that the AI did try and get outta dodge when I was creaming it _ i cut it off tho with a STUG and wreaked havoc on its withdrawing troops I had NO probs with the game slowing it ran smooth as silk - check out my other thread I had some observations ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out [This message has been edited by SS_PanzerLeader (edited 05-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 10, 2000 Share Posted May 10, 2000 Whoa, watch out for the spoilers I'm sure we are going to have a big discussion about the Valley in the days to come. There is a lot going on in that one. Just a note about CE... Although the AI is much improved, some of the tricks people have learned from playing the thing 2 dozen times will still work wonders with the Gold Demo as well. Just more evidence that a scenario is best played once or maybe twice. On a personal note... I played CE just to check out how it would play with the final code. I still won (and that was expceted), but I lost way more stuff than I should have seeing as I made the scenario and have played it many times over. Someone else noted the AI totally shocking him over by dropping smoke and pulling a flanking move at the same time. Just imagine this sort of thing not knowing exactly what the AI had to flank with Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyamoto Musashi Posted May 10, 2000 Share Posted May 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Someone else noted the AI totally shocking him over by dropping smoke and pulling a flanking move at the same time. Just imagine this sort of thing not knowing exactly what the AI had to flank with Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Woohoo!! That was my post! Steve read my post --basking in the glow-- [This message has been edited by Miyamoto Musashi (edited 05-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aaronb Posted May 10, 2000 Share Posted May 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SS_PanzerLeader: Well Jsut got done playing CE against the AI and did exceptionally well <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not to brag (since we all know Berli got a perfect game against a human in the Beta Demo), but here goes: Axis: 172(38KIA) 22 captured (surrendered) 3 vehicles 60 OK Allied: 4(1 KIA) 2 vehicles (damn 'schrecks, they work better now). 228 OK How did this happen? It's the best score I ever got against the AI in CE. Here's how. - the target command is just sticky enough to be effective without being dangerously obsessive. - tanks seem to do a better job of laying smoke. - mortars work _really_ well. - group move/hide/etc freed my concentration for a more intuitive playing style. - units debark from vehicles with total reliability. - my Shermans weren't fixated on infantry while being mauled by STuG's, and they continued to track fleeing squads when then went behind buildings. - troops respond better to ambush instructions. - I've played CE enough to be smart about suppress/assault/kill, in that order. In short, everything works better, exactly as promised. The AI was definitely smarter and more aggressive, but the improved control behaviours compensated. Can't wait for a blind PBEM in the Valley. And improved immersion indeed! Great smoke, transparencies, explosions, sound, animations, etc. My pre-order just fully validated itself. 400Mhz Celeron, 4MB Intel graphics card, smooth as silk. I didn't see an FPS counter (which we have seen in some screenshots). What did I do wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted May 10, 2000 Author Share Posted May 10, 2000 Check out the game in the other thread guys ya gotta try this _ AI displayed some incredible tactics even tho I beat it NEVER SEEN SO MUCH DAMN SMOKE and well used ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted May 10, 2000 Share Posted May 10, 2000 uh its never been a challenge as the US in CE? I just mopped the germans as uS also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted May 10, 2000 Author Share Posted May 10, 2000 Hehe well try it at +100 germs lewis ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted May 11, 2000 Share Posted May 11, 2000 I just finished CE as germs and ran the US off the board. POSSIBLE SPOILAGE (but you'll read anyway)!!!! The 81mm FO now really has a major effect. The arty now falls better and the use of smoke gives the germs a better chance to close up and use thier numbers. I didnt notice the AI being better. The armor battle was typical. StuG took out 2 sherms then gets KOed. 2nd StuG gets flamed before doing anything. Its 3 on 1 when my 81mm smoke allows me to get the shrecks in close and massed together near the church. After tense moments I am left standing with one StuG. I noticed a good tactic. In the firefight between forces, the US were ducking down more than my troops. Hell with I thought. Charge em. The US started screaming (coming right at us!)and streaming back en masse. It was like the cival war as my men put them on their heels and never let up. I won something like 87 to 13. It ended before turn 30. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanE Posted May 11, 2000 Share Posted May 11, 2000 Well, I can say I had a bad outing with CE. I started as Germans and decided to go slow to see what the new AI had in store for me. After knocking out 1 sherman and immobilizing another things went down hill for my boys. I lost 1 Stug by the church and then the AI put down some smoke and started advancing on the church. I pulled my 2 remaining Stugs behind the hill until the smoke cleared. After a couple of turns waiting, I discovered the AI had snuck 2 bazooka teams to the north of my Stugs. As I wheeled my Stugs to face this threat, 2 Shermans came through the smoke to the south... Now that I think about, I always did like commanding infantry. Steve & Charles: Great job. I'm going into the valley tonight. I'm sure I will be speachless when (if?) I make it out. ------------------ Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted May 11, 2000 Share Posted May 11, 2000 Just got my ass wiped on CE as US. Set Germs to +150. "SIR! THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM!!! AGHHH!!! I'M BUGGING OUT!!!!" LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aaronb Posted May 11, 2000 Share Posted May 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JeffRaider: Just got my ass wiped on CE as US. Set Germs to +150. "SIR! THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM!!! AGHHH!!! I'M BUGGING OUT!!!!" LOL.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> For some (easy) real fun, play as Germans with +150. You can do some really intense bombardment with all those FO's. And panzerschrecks? Just group, and run them forward in a line... it turns CM into a beer-and-pretzels game for those lighter moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 uh I am saying that I am whipping the AI without +150, beer or pretzels. I havent lost yet as US or German in either scenario. I still see the AI pushing forward MGs and morters and such and not having a good attack logic. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 Yes Lewis, you are the best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted May 12, 2000 Author Share Posted May 12, 2000 Lewis give the AI some points an lets hear how ya do ------------------ SS_PanzerLeader.......out [This message has been edited by SS_PanzerLeader (edited 05-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 Yeah I will try as germs in CE against the next levels up whatever that is. BUT the point I am making is that either: 1:The scenario got unbalanced due to arty change 2:The AI aint that great 3:Somehow I got better I am still seeing the same dumb attack behaviour. I just wonder if its possible for anyone to write a program that can beat a human in something as decision intensive as CM? Well, BTS has a good Soviet 1941 commander model already done so that should make CM2 easier! Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 I just replayed CE as the germans on even odds and slapped the US down 90 to 10. I cant believe how much an impact the 81mm arty has in HE and smoke. Lets get this strait. I was giving general orders and not micromanaging. There is a difinite difference in this scenario since the gold demo. I used to have to finesse with the germans but anyone can run up and win. Literally run to the objective. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 Lewis, Thanks a lot... I WAS playing VT BLIND! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 you are welcome berli-man. But if you are playing someone blind why are you reading a thread called CE VS THE AI AAR? Lets stop the quiffy behaviour people. Theres an obvious inflammatory stature to weasy posts like berli-mans. Can we get some sense of dignity in a world run rampant on pusses screaming "politically correct" or "I want rules but cant use my own common sense?". Berli-man. Bad show girl. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username: you are welcome berli-man. But if you are playing someone blind why are you reading a thread called CE VS THE AI AAR? Lewis<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Perhaps it's because if you could for once stay on topic, other gamers could read a thread titled "CE" without having to deal with obvious, vastly superior intellects like yours who insist on discussing VT. Learn to read, Lewis. ------------------ I'm drinkin' wine, I'm eatin' cheese and catching some rays, you know. — Oddball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But if you are playing someone blind why are you reading a thread called CE VS THE AI AAR?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Let me pose you a question. What the F#$% does CE mean? It wouldn't by chance be Chance Encounter, a scenario I have played to death, would it? Why wouldn't I read a thread with that title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 I never heard such weez in my life!!! You want to blind play and then just blind play and TRUST each other!!! God its everyone elses on the worlds fault but your own isnt it!!! I never read anywhere in here that blind play is a holy sacrament!! you give up something for it!! Blind play and live without viewing our discussion!!! How the hell did the world get so full of such nonsense???? People are getting completely unfathomaonable. A game comes out and I have to honor your wishes? You just stop reading posts special people OK? Control YOUR urges and stop inflicting special interests on others. UNBELIEVABLE!!! Want the trains to run on your special schedules next? I DONT LIVE IN A WORLD BUT A CRAZY ASYLUM!!! :Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Username Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 Whos VT by the way? You said you were playing him. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 12, 2000 Share Posted May 12, 2000 Lewis wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I just wonder if its possible for anyone to write a program that can beat a human in something as decision intensive as CM?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Honestly, I don't think it will ever happen Look at Deep Blue. Millions of dollars put into a machine, with hundreds of top of the line specialized processors, to play one game, with one set of rules, a set number of possible moves, and fixed strategies that have eveloved over hundreds of years. And yes, that can beat the best human. The thing is, chess is litterally child's play compared to any wargame out there, but especially CM. So don't expect to ever come up against an AI that can beat you in an even fight. And as I have said hundreds of times before (ok, just feels like it), once you have played a scenario ONE TIME, you *should* beat the AI every time thereafter. I would expect the same thing against a moderate level human player as well. So any victories over the first are not impressive In CE a rush to the flag ALWAYS put you in an advantage, even with the Beta Demo. The point is that you are rushing the flag because you know from prior experience that is the thing to do. Not very fair to the poor AI that hasn't a clue what to expect when you know every last thing about the scenario <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>There is a difinite difference in this scenario since the gold demo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Lots of differences, all of which make the game feel different. And that is why CE was included. So you could see how much the game has changed. And you are possibly correct. Perhaps some of the changes we made unbalanced the sceanrio. I wouldn't doubt that actually since I balanced the thing to work within the framework of the Beta Demo, not the Gold Demo. More thoughts on the AI in general: Combat Mission's AI is designed to be challenging. I win almost all the time, but I have to work for it (fresh scenarios are key here!). Compare this with the other wargames I play where falling asleap isn't going to lose me the game. CM is certainly not as bright as a human player (never will be), but it isn't dumb when compared to similar scaled wargames. In fact, it is damned near brilliant compared to any one I have ever played. No boast there Especially since the other games are far more simplistic in terms of game mechanics. And CM's AI is totally dynamic, which means it can play just as well (in theory of course) on any map with any force in any situation. Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 05-12-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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