rwcanuck Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Fionn wrote in an earlier post: "Snipers: CM has sharpshooters who are to most intents and purposes the same insofar as they are great shots. They just aren't hyper-specialised like real snipers were. Real snipers wouldn't be all that common on a battlefield of CM's scale anyway.. There was a big discussion of sniping a while back and I think everyone is happy with the solution." ------------------------------- But why do they not shoot at all! In a current PBEM game I am playing at Riesburg the German sharpshooter is put in a very good position to shoot at the enemy. Targets are selected but the sniper will not fire even at close range! Other than spotting this guy is completely useless. CM is a fantastic game but I do want to see the sniper be a little more effective than what I have seen in the beta demo so far. rw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 From my experience the sharpshooters only shoot at tank and weapon crews. They do a great job at forcing tanks to button-up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 As long as you don't expect your sharpshooters to win the war for you, they will be an extremely valuable help. They fire when they have a good target and a decent chance to kill it. Good targets are tank commanders, artillery observers and HQ teams. A sharpshooter would have to be suicidal to shoot at an enemy squad at close range - he'll be dead after the first couple of shots. That's not what these guys are there for (they are NOT one man rifle squads). I have used sharpshooters with great effect in the game, and I have seen an enemy sniper take out two of my FO teams. SO I guess it boils down to using them right for them to be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 I just played RB in a quick AI match, and the sharpshooter nailed the TC of the first Sherman to come down the road. The tank stopped and remained motionless for the rest of the battle. I still lost, but the sharpshooter did his job. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwcanuck Posted January 15, 2000 Author Share Posted January 15, 2000 My Sharpshooter in Riesberg has only fired once so far and has had an unbuttoned tank commander in his sights for over 2 minutes without firing! The enemy has not spotted him yet so perhaps he will eventually fire his rifle. He must be an overly cautious SOB I am glad to see snipers have been effective in other games. I have utilized snipers to their utmost in Close Combat but have yet to see anything in CM to match my successes in CC. Guess I am just unlucky so far in the beta demo, and my luck should change in the final version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Quick question... is your sniper "hidden?" I've noticed that if a sniper (or anyone else for that matter) is hiding, they don't shoot. Snipers are best left to pick their own targets... they do a good job on their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwcanuck Posted January 15, 2000 Author Share Posted January 15, 2000 Nope! He is not hiding. I have noticed the TacAi would keep changing targets from HQ units to Tank Crews so eventually I targeted the tank crew that was unbuttoned around 200 metres away but he refuses to fire his rifle for some reason...there are infantry in woods nearby so perhps he is afraid to fire to expose his position to these infantry squads. Maybe there is more going on in the games then we realize that could cause situations not to develop the way we want them too. Perhaps the TacAi is more intelligent then we are sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 The guy has 10 rounds. TC's head and shoulders are protruding from a bouncing tank at 200 meters. Leave the sniper alone and let him work- that's not an easy shot. If he gets the TC it's well worth it. I would wait 2 minutes for a deer at that range, if I had it- you're only going to get one chance (and the deer won't return fire with a 75mm if I miss). I had the sniper zap 2 TC's in one game, and one of the buttoned Shermans then fell victim to a Schreck team who couldn't have snuck up on it any other way. I credit the sniper with the kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 RWcanuck, choosing a target for a sharpshooter is not the same as for a line infantry unit. It's not "shoot right now and keep shooting, like for infantry. You're telling the sniper "watch this guy (and only this guy) and shoot when you can." You may be causing the shooter to miss other shots that could contribute to your defense of the town (like nailing the last member of a HQ section, or a machine gun team) You should let the sharpshooter select his own targets. The TAC AI was selecting HQ units cause messing up platoon (maybe company HQ if yer lucky) headquarters will often hurt the enemy more than crippling one tank. Riesberg is primarily an infantry fight, and it's highly unlikely that sniping one TC is going to have a major impact on the US firepower, so let the sniper select his target and fire when he's ready. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 I use the sharpshooter in Reisberg to great effect. I use an SMG squad a Panzerschrek and the Sharpshooter together. I use the Sharpshooter to betton up the tank by killing the TC then I sneak the SMG squad up and I take out the tank with the 'Schrek and the SMG squad mops up the crew. Obviously it doesn't work all the time but I've done it 3 or 4 times. Just my 2 cents. ------------------ Visit my Combat Mission for Mac page! With some exclusive images courtesy of the Combat Mission HQ! cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Thats a bit heartless Colin! ------------------ ------------------ CCJ BLITZ_Force My HomePage -----> www.geocities.com/coolcolj/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Well, if any fire is directed at positions near a sniper he often won't fire. Also, a sniper is best-used for shots at long range, 300 to 400 metres, IMO. Lastly, I'd say thatI've had snipers kill 6 and 7 enemy soldiers in Riesberg and had similar success rates in other scenarios in the full game. A couple of snipers can really, really put a world of hurt on the enemy's command and control net if used right.. Basically I'd advise you to just let the sniper choose his own targets and wouldn't put ANYTHING that might draw fire in or near the building he's in. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 In a game of Riesberg I had the sharpshooter fire at a W+ which buttoned and did not move for the rest of the game. I would think that this meant that the TC was hit, but the sharpshooter had no kills registered. I am curious as to how FOW applies to sharpshooters. Presumeably with a scoped rifle you would have much better LOS and info on whatever you target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 I have a question about sniper ammo display. When you select a sharpshooter it says that it has 10 'h' rounds. What are these? I assume they're not HE like in tanks. Thanks a lot. ------------------ Visit my Combat Mission for Mac page! With some exclusive images courtesy of the Combat Mission HQ! cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Bill, While a sniper is much more likely to know if he got a kill or not he won't always know. E.g. you fire, the TC dissapears from view.. Did you kill him or did he simply drop down into the turret for safety? Only way you can know for sure, unless he leaves his head on the engine decking, is by observing the actions of the tank from then on. Often I think my sniper get 4 or 5 guys and find out he got 7 or 8 at the end of the game. Colin, Think of the 10h as being 10 bullets. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 I was more curious about what the 'h' stood for. Thanks. ------------------ Visit my Combat Mission for Mac page! With some exclusive images courtesy of the Combat Mission HQ! cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 The "h" was a simple typo. It says "10" in the full version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Fionn, How do you know how many guys your sniper got at the end of the game? Even when I am *really* sure he hit someone the After Action kill count is always 0. Is this a Beta demo thing? - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 17, 2000 Share Posted January 17, 2000 Hmm, if the after actio count is zero then he really didn't kill anyone... Ok, now onto my "how to use snipers" lesson... Try putting your sniper on the far right of your lin, swing him inwards and forwards (like a pincer) until he comes out into some woods where he can see the US. Since he isn;t in the town or near ANY of your other troops he shouldn't be disturbed. Then just leave him there and let him pick of company and platoon HQs... He should get some kills this way since he should be roughly 200 metres from the nearest friendly and thus no fire should be going near him. That's not the best setup for the sniper.. I prefer putting him in a building in the middle of the village and letting him shoot when he wants.. Works for me... Remember that a sniper NEEDS to track a target for 40 or 50 seconds before firing at it so maybe this is what's going wrong for you? Why don't you describe to me how you decide where to place a sniper and what happens when you place him there and the game starts.. Do you designate targets, if so how often etc? ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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