Soviet infantry against tanks

[PEB14]

I've played CMBN a lot more than CMRT and to me the latter is a lot more difficult to play...

I just played one scenario as the Soviets with disastrous results. In this mission I had to face for 10 minutes a bunch of Panzer IV with an infantry company on its own. And in this scenario I was supposed to be the attacker...

When playing the Germans, the US or the British, you have AT weapons to deal with this threat. You can manoeuver and try to get into firing position. But the Soviets??? What can you achieve with AT rifles in 1944? What can you do against Panzer IV tanks sitting in the open and waiting for you, 100-200 meters away?

[chuckdyke]

My best performance with an AT Rifle was made a Tiger 1 retreat by a penetration through the roof of the turret. 

[Brille]

Best bets would be to attack them from the side. Even though they might have the armor skirts on, you can still penetrate them. 

The skirt is calculated in an abstracted way so it will sometimes penetrate and sometimes not. 

However I've managed only once to destroy a Stug from the side with an at rifle but that was just like 10m away at a 90°angle. 

Most of the time though you will probably just scare the tanks away with a pen, as they don't have much after penetration effects. 

Your other option with infantry only is close assault. Handgrenades due to their abstracted nature can do enough to let the crew bail out. I would say any tank that stands close and long enough to infantry will be either destroyed or immobilized - almost  guaranteed. 

On the plus side soviet infantry in 1944/1945 often have at least one Rpg43 (didn't count it just yet) with them. This is simply a throwable hollow charge. They are not listed in the infantries inventory though and count just as normal handgrenades, but it is anything but. 

It comes with a bigger explosion and if it hits a tank proerly it is mostly game over. 

I've hunted isolated Tigers with small hunter teams successfully. 

But you have to use the environment to your advantage and need to avoid the frontal arc of a tank. 

In quick battles and some scenarios you even have the option to get your hands on different Panzerfaust models as they were regularly used, as soviets raided more and more german supply depots. 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Brille

[Halmbarte]

9 hours ago, PEB14 said:

I've played CMBN a lot more than CMRT and to me the latter is a lot more difficult to play...

I just played one scenario as the Soviets with disastrous results. In this mission I had to face for 10 minutes a bunch of Panzer IV with an infantry company on its own. And in this scenario I was supposed to be the attacker...

When playing the Germans, the US or the British, you have AT weapons to deal with this threat. You can manoeuver and try to get into firing position. But the Soviets??? What can you achieve with AT rifles in 1944? What can you do against Panzer IV tanks sitting in the open and waiting for you, 100-200 meters away?

What was the objective? Did your mission require you take on the panzers? Was infiltration by covered routes an option? 

H

[PEB14]

14 hours ago, Halmbarte said:

What was the objective? Did your mission require you take on the panzers? Was infiltration by covered routes an option? 

H

Excellent question!

The infantry was only part of the force but was on its own for 10 minutes in the game. The purpose was to seize (bare) hills. There was one (and only one) covered route but it required to cross a highway covered by the tanks.

My analysis was that there were two options:

- try the covered route and accept losses,

- hide in the woods and wait for support.

I chose the latter.

But the question was more general and not scenario specific. The Soviet infantry seems to be barehand against German tanks. My understanding is, they can only fight tanks in close terrain at grenades range (and luckily with AT rifles at close ranges as well). Basically, the zone of comfort for German AFV is beyond 200 meters against Western powers, and 50 meters against the Soviet... Is it correct?

[Brille]

@PEB14

Any AFV that has at least 40mm of armor protection should be safe against the soviet infantry at 100m and further. That's what a PTRD41 can penetrate at 100m on a plain armor plate, if memory serves me right. 

Anything else is safe when not in grenade range (20m). 50m should hit the spot if you consider that the infantry will jump you for a few meters. 

BUT (there is always a but) if the soviets have, like I've said, german made Panzerfausts available, I would set the safe zone up at 100m and beyond! 

They can have various versions of it:

Panzerfaust 30k, 30, 60 aaaand even the 100series.

I don't know how wide spread those tank hunters are in a scenario because I rarely play them, but in a quick battle I would assume that my opponent has at least a few of them. 

That means that the soviet infantry could kill any german tank on the field. 

[Halmbarte]

6 hours ago, PEB14 said:

Excellent question!

The infantry was only part of the force but was on its own for 10 minutes in the game. The purpose was to seize (bare) hills. There was one (and only one) covered route but it required to cross a highway covered by the tanks.

My analysis was that there were two options:

- try the covered route and accept losses,

- hide in the woods and wait for support.

I chose the latter.

But the question was more general and not scenario specific. The Soviet infantry seems to be barehand against German tanks. My understanding is, they can only fight tanks in close terrain at grenades range (and luckily with AT rifles at close ranges as well). Basically, the zone of comfort for German AFV is beyond 200 meters against Western powers, and 50 meters against the Soviet... Is it correct?

My general rules for playing the Sov vs the Germans (RT)or Americans (CW)

Time spent on recon is never wasted.

Time and resources spent killing enemy recon is never wasted. 

Have a plan and execute it. 

The artillery fire plan dictates the maneuver plan. The maneuver plan dictates the fire plan. These must be mutually supportive. 

A company of Sov tanks spots better than any single German/NATO tank. 

Take away the better spotting offered by the German/NATO habit of fighting unbuttoned. Get them heads down to decrease their situational awareness. 

When you attack, attack! Don't poke him with one finger at a time. Make a fist and crush the enemy with overwhelming force. 

Use a platoon to crush a squad > use a company to crush a platoon >> use a battalion to crush a squad. Fair fights are for suckers.

Keep pressing attacks until they aren't feasible anymore, but don't reinforce failure. The Germans/Americans never have enough troops/tanks. 

Just because you have mass doesn't mean the only way forwards is a frontal assault. There are other ways to win that don't involve sticking your dick into the meat grinder until it jams. Recon routes that bypass the enemy, the Germans/NATO never have enough troops/tanks to cover every avenue of approach. Infantry infiltration is a thing.

If you're playing the Sov: Your man portable ATGMs (>AT3s) are scary. Use infiltration tactics to get the ATGMs forward into range to support attacks. Make sure to protect the carriers since they are stuffed with reloads and make big boom if hit. 

Take you time, don't be in a rush to die. You'll probably run out of people, tanks, and/or ammo before you run out of time. 
 
Urban warfare: 

Don't move in the streets. Mouseholing is optimum, then back gardens, then alleyways. Stay out of the streets. Use supporting weapons to create mouseholes and gaps in walls. 

Don't go in through the front door. If you can arrange it start at the top and clear down. 

Suppress every building that has line of sight to your maneuvering force. If you can't suppress or smoke it don't move that way. 

 

In your situation, given an infantry force that doesn't have the means to actually take the objectives:

1) Use that 10 minutes on recon.

2) Be ready, when supporting assists show up, to pass along spots & be hit the German tank commanders with MG or AT rifle fire and make them button up. 

 

H