killmore Posted March 3, 2000 Share Posted March 3, 2000 I never seen a sun in CM. I don't think it is ever shown. But effects of sun on the battle might be significant. Imagine that the setting sun would be behind the 88 in the Reisenburg scenario. Shermans would not be able pinpoint where from the fire is coming from due to blinding glare. Unit recognition and fire accuracy would also be affected if units would try to look toward the sun. Imagine the Stug hull down behind the hill and the sun right behind him. Glare would make it almost imposible to kill it. Comments please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted March 3, 2000 Share Posted March 3, 2000 Unlike fighter planes a stationary FlaK cannot deliberately come "out of the sun" to gain an advantage. So this blinding would be a rather random effect and I do not see how it could be used to a tactical advantage by a groud unit other then by coincidence. But if the tactic of attacking at sunset or sunrise was indeed applied then I am sure we will hear stories about it now ... Regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 3, 2000 Share Posted March 3, 2000 No, there is no sun effects simulated in CM. Yes, the sun can do some nasty things to the eye, but it is not as easy as if x then y. The sun in high noon position (i.e. directly overhead) can obscure or reveal positions depending on the terrain and atmospheric conditions. In short, don't execpt simulation of the sun for another 20 years of wargaming or so Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted March 3, 2000 Author Share Posted March 3, 2000 You are right! This would be another semi-random effect that can influence the battle significantly. Just like weather... You could position your small AT gun in that way. You could also move your tank into "out-of-the-sun" position. I also don't expect "exact" sun simulation any time soon. The only effect that could be done in reasonable programming/execution time is if the sun is directly behind some unit. (It was done before in Flight Sims...) Well maybe in CM-X... [This message has been edited by killmore (edited 03-03-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutral Party Posted March 3, 2000 Share Posted March 3, 2000 Damn! I was wanting to get all my guys to polish up their tanks and line up just on the edge of a ravine facing the rising or setting sun then when the baddies come charging in they get blinded by the reflected sunlight and all fall into the ravine and die - "and that's how I won the Iron Cross" Incidently, this was also the method employed by the Cork Militia in their famous defeat of the Turks at Waterloo or maybe it was King Solomon who defeated his evil brother Shere Khan. It's all a bit hazy. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 3, 2000 Share Posted March 3, 2000 Hehehe...make it look like that KT is coming out of the sun. Hmm...Pretty much if this goes in (which it won't. Steve has made it clear) then I'm asking for the inclusion of glare off of sharpshooters scopes. Why be trillionaires when we could be....billionaires!!! ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Deych Posted March 4, 2000 Share Posted March 4, 2000 Steve, I really think you're being terribly pessimistic in your predictions. You do remember Ye Olde Exponential Curve? In 20 years, you'll be using a 8 Terrahertz computer. That thing will not only calculate where every photon is going to land, it'll display and animate it in 10Kx10K pixels in true color. That may sounds kind of scary, being about 1700 terrapixels per frame, but since the eye runs at about 15 Hz, you only need to update maximum of 25500 terrapixels per second, or only about 3000 pixels per cycle. As Gordon Moore said - "Piece of cake." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted March 4, 2000 Share Posted March 4, 2000 By the time 20 years rolls around, we will be able to reach into the monitor and fire real weapons at each other. Talk about awesome 3D effects. Ray ------------------ www.panzerelite.iwarp.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossfire Posted March 4, 2000 Share Posted March 4, 2000 It not enought that germans are better in the morning (americans don't like to get up that early), You want them to have yet another advantage due to rising sun? NO WAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Mr.Black Posted March 4, 2000 Share Posted March 4, 2000 And thank god there are no Spanish troops in CM! I have been living in Spain for a hell of a long time, and getting up early is not what I could call a custom in here. It is not that they would fight worse at sunrise, it is that they just wouldn't be there! And then we can add ye olde and mighty 'siesta' after lunch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted March 4, 2000 Share Posted March 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Neutral Party: Damn! I was wanting to get all my guys to polish up their tanks and line up just on the edge of a ravine facing the rising or setting sun then when the baddies come charging in they get blinded by the reflected sunlight and all fall into the ravine...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I saw that movie...lol. ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted March 4, 2000 Share Posted March 4, 2000 I'm trying to add a sun and lense flare fx to the sky texture, when I get it right I'll post a pic, its all cosmetic off course ------------------ CCJ aka BLITZ_Force My Hompage ----> http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj Double your immersion with my Tweaked Textures and Saving Private Ryan sound set mods for CM!! Check out my new Textures V2.0 photo Gallery and my music while your there, or grab a CM Wallpaper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted March 5, 2000 Share Posted March 5, 2000 Go and check out my new lens flared sky let me know what you think! ------------------ CCJ aka BLITZ_Force My Hompage ----> http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj Double your immersion with my Tweaked Textures and Saving Private Ryan sound set mods for CM!! Check out my new Textures V2.0 photo Gallery and my music while your there, or grab a CM Wallpaper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 5, 2000 Share Posted March 5, 2000 Nah, the problem isn't so much the horsepower (although it certainly is huge), but the coding. You would have to code so much stuff in for surface reflections, shade, etc. that it would be a totally silly pile of work for such a tiny return in realism. I said 20 years, but I might as well said 100. I don't think any developer is going to rush out and go for this one any time soon BTW, we can't have an artistic representation of the sun because of the way the background texture wraps. IIRC you would see a sun at every compass point if we put one into the texture. Steve Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted March 6, 2000 Author Share Posted March 6, 2000 BTS - forget the reflections, shade etc. I know that doing it will take huge amount of time. All I really wanted is the decreased visibility of the unit positioned right in from of the sun. Every flight sim does it. Basically: if(lineOfFireToTheEnemy hits PositionOfTheSun +/- sunSize*2) { Enemy visibility /=2; FireAccuracyTowardEnemy /=5; } That really all I was wondering about and nothing more ! Of course there is a problem of moving the sun across the sky during every turn... And that is something that is not accounted for at all in your engine... So it might be a time consuming problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 6, 2000 Share Posted March 6, 2000 It really isn't as simple as that. In a flight sim you are flying practically right OUT of the sun. In other words, the sun attacking plane, and defending plane are all in straight line in that order. That simply doesn't happen on the battlefield. When the sun is low enough you can get a similar effect if the unit is on a hill, the other unit is lower, and all are lined up East/West, but we are talking very rare circumstances. Not worth our time Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 6, 2000 Share Posted March 6, 2000 CCJ wow!! That lense flare (or whatever it is) looks great. ------------------ Visit my webpage! http://cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted March 6, 2000 Share Posted March 6, 2000 Not that I think that adding sun effects to CM would be worthwile, but anyway... Steve wrote: When the sun is low enough you can get a similar effect if the unit is on a hill, the other unit is lower, and all are lined up East/West, but we are talking very rare circumstances. There's another possibility. During sunny winter days it's practically impossible to look at the direction of sun because snow reflects too much light. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 7, 2000 Share Posted March 7, 2000 Actually, that gets back to an earlier point I made above. Snow, and other effects, make for radically diffrent lighting troubles for the eye. Go out into a snow covered field at high noon with little to no hint of clouds in the sky. Blinding for everybody, at least until the eyes adjust (which would also have to be simulated )! And that is with the sun directly overhead. But the same field in the same conditions, but in the summer, is a totally different experience. Again, this is NOT easy to simulate realistically, and generally it isn't a problem, so there really is no point trying to put it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted March 7, 2000 Author Share Posted March 7, 2000 Thanks for reading the thread BTS. Other game companies would just ignore it. I hope you will consider the sun in CM-X. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted March 7, 2000 Share Posted March 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: I said 20 years, but I might as well said 100. I don't think any developer is going to rush out and go for this one any time soon Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Bollox.. I bet you will do something like that in a few years. I got no idea on coding whatsoever but doesn't it get easier every year? Well actually I bet it get's harder every year because of all the realism people are demanding but I think you got my idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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