AAR - Factory Outlet

[THH149]

Howdy

I played Factory Outlet H2H the other day and wanted to give  a rundown of the action and learning from the encounter.

I was the Syrian Red Force and my opponent's turn to take US Army Blue Force. US attack with a first wave of three Abrams, accompanied by Strykers with the Abrams old gun and a selection of Bradleys with TOW launchers, and second wave as reinforcements were a company of infantry and engineers in Strykers, plus OBA and Apache helicopters.  Their mission is to control four buildings spread across a factory complex (one however was outside the complex walls - the "Offices") with largely open ground either side of the complex (long fields of fire) and a wadi along the rear left of the complex. The buildings are arranged factory/warehouse/admin building in a front to rear format with the Office building on the center left. In front of the Factory there is a unmanned trench protected by scatter minefields (neither the mines or trenches can be moved at set-up), and there are trenches and a bunker or two on each flank.

Red force was a mixed bag of special forces infantry with a large number of green/conscript infantry, plus a AT company armed with two AT-3 Saggers, 2 RCLs and 2 HMGs plus some squads with RPGs. At around turn 25, Red force receives a company of T-62MVs (these are an upgraded model with ERA blocks) supported by three BRDMs with AT-5s.

Red Force set-up is broken into three set-up zones - the AT company is forced to be on the syrian left of the complex, a platoon plus of green infantry is forced to set-up on the right, with the rest spread across the four buildings. As my friend and were playing live via network play I didn't feel I had time to adjust the provided set-up to much (more on that later), but I did move a sniper team out of the Offices and put them into the Warehouse, and fiddled a bit with the saggers so they had a chance of a side shots on US vehicles. The Offices were already isolated and didnt feel like throwing a sniper team away. I didn't man the bunkers as they stand out like sore thumbs and are immediately targetted. In the read Admin Building there was a command squad, a sniper team and an observation team which spotted for batteries of 152mm.  The observer let his first barrage go at minute one as pre-registered as airburst (a mistake) over the zone forward of the factory. As much as possible I hid everyone for as long as possible (too long perhaps, another mistake).

Broadly, the Abrams advanced with Bradleys behind, followed by the Strykers with the big guns shooting up the left and right flanks. Mostly the green Syrians cowered or ran as soon as they heard firing. A highpoint was one Sagger team destroying an Abrams (IIRC), but they quickly retreated from supporting vehicles return fire. The left bunker was first thing targetted along with the two bunkers on the right. The right flank was more misery as the Syrians were shot up by Bradleys and Abrams and friends who all stayed well out of RPG range. No more right and left flanks.

Once the flanks were cleared the factory assault began, but one Abrams was immobilised by the minefield. By then the US second wave had arrived and Strykers began to pour fire into the factory.  The Strykers advanced to far into the complex and two went down to RPG fire, and several US squads were shatted by heavy infantry fire. A trade-off was the Syrian special forces squad (rated Crack) all died in the firefight.  However, the Syrians kept holding on moving about the rear of the building, attempting to force the US to move adjacent and take point blank fire as they did so.  Unfortunately, the US was on the roof and was using that advantage to interdict my own movement upstairs. The Syrian's knew all this was coming and planned their all batteries barrage onto the complex itself.

While that was happening, other Strykers were streaming past the Factory and moving infantry to assault the Warehouse and Admin buildings, (they'd taken the Offices and were using the roof to spot for OBA). I didn't have many units to defend those buidlings  - a few squads and the threat of RPGs. All the buidlings are awkwardly constructed with several windowless walls and limited internal doorways so we both had to be super careful about orders in case our fellas ran into the streets and firelanes.

Anyway, while all this was happening, the cavalry arrived! yeeha! The ten T-62s will save the day right?

As soon as the T-62s appeared (in a very close clump of vehicles which is unlikely to be a realistic tactical employment) they started firing and knocked out three US vehicles. In the first orders phase after they appeared, I decided the best thing to do with them was to move Fast/Quick forward so they could move and shoot (a mistake) more out of position US vehicles, for the BRDMs to  get hull down and seek out targets. In response, the Abram, strykers, TOWs and Bradleys plus Apaches had a field day with all reinforcements knocked out in 2-3 minutes. Nope, the cavalry didn't save us. The ERA blocks weren't enough to save the vehicles from repeated hits.

Anyhow, the US returned to the grind of clearing out the complex, and once my last OBA ended and due to the hour of the night, I called for a ceasefire.

Here's the result (sad face): 

 

All credit to my opponent Andrew who played a very careful game. The US ground objective wasn't realised at the ceasefire as some objectives weren't solely controlled, but with a lot of time on the clock, the US would have captured all the buildings.

Some things I liked/didn't like about the scenario:

 - I've got to do better playing old soviet armor. Researching the T-62 tells me they have poor move and shoot abilities, so a better play would be to move and then shoot from a halt, rather than shooting while moving. Syrians can only hope that Apaches aren't around when they enter.

- Set-up and reinforcements entry is to restrictive and probably not according to doctine. Why would Syrians put Saggers in front line when they have a 500 meter minimum range? reinforcements cant be entered as the player prefers but arrive as one tight group - only 2-3 spaces between vehicles which is weird. Se-up should allow the human player to put the Syrians anywhere behind the current most forward Red set-up zone, and let the player use their judgement on the spread of forces. There's no possibility of moving mines or trenches in front of the Factory, making for boring repeated play as H2H.

- The victory conditions are unbalanced. Despite the designer notes saying that both sides get the chance for equal points, the Blue Force can score 1500 points and the Red force 1200. The specific allocations are unbalanced as well - for instance if the Syrians keep their own casualties below 50% then they get 200 points which is completely unrealistic (it should be 90-95% casualties), and Red force gets 200 pts if they score 35% casualties against Blue (the % is way to high). There is also a pts allocation of 400 pts for elimating the US force or share there-off - the only points Red force scored (184 of 400, or 46%). The VC are complicated (they need a monte carlo simulation to work out if both sides have a chance of winning the game) and as usual not shown to the players before they start.

- Red force should have some anti-air capabilities.

- There are some entrenchments near the Factory, why would Syrians occupy those? My only idea is to use them in some reverse slope/ambush/enfilade position and man them with RPGs (or RCLs if they can be moved from the left flank) and avoid the backblast, but they'd be exposed with few retreat options (depends on access to buildings' door ways). Though that's something to explore.

Overall, I did like the contest and there were some dramatic moments (a cheap as chips Sagger defying the odds to take out an Abrams), but overall the balance as a game (where both players have an equal chance of winning the game even though Red force will get hammered) is probably 75-80% in Blue's favour.  I'd reduce the length of the scenario, allow Red set-up across one deployment zone, change the deployment of Red reinforcements to be more tactically aware, and change the VC to have the US only score points for the ground captured, while Red only score points for US casualties.  Another change I'd make is to bump the Conscripts to Green and Green units to Regular.

Have you played this scenario? What do you think?

THH

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by THH149

[DerKommissar]

I don't envy anyone playing SAA in SF2. There's only one way a fight between T-62s and an Apache can go -- like Cheech & Chong, Up in Smoke. Congrats on a valiant last stand!

[chuckdyke]

3 hours ago, THH149 said:

Howdy

I played Factory Outlet H2H the other day and wanted to give  a rundown of the action and learning from the encounter.

I was the Syrian Red Force and my opponent's turn to take US Army Blue Force. US attack with a first wave of three Abrams, accompanied by Strykers with the Abrams old gun and a selection of Bradleys with TOW launchers, and second wave as reinforcements were a company of infantry and engineers in Strykers, plus OBA and Apache helicopters.  Their mission is to control four buildings spread across a factory complex (one however was outside the complex walls - the "Offices") with largely open ground either side of the complex (long fields of fire) and a wadi along the rear left of the complex. The buildings are arranged factory/warehouse/admin building in a front to rear format with the Office building on the center left. In front of the Factory there is a unmanned trench protected by scatter minefields (neither the mines or trenches can be moved at set-up), and there are trenches and a bunker or two on each flank.

Red force was a mixed bag of special forces infantry with a large number of green/conscript infantry, plus a AT company armed with two AT-3 Saggers, 2 RCLs and 2 HMGs plus some squads with RPGs. At around turn 25, Red force receives a company of T-62MVs (these are an upgraded model with ERA blocks) supported by three BRDMs with AT-5s.

Red Force set-up is broken into three set-up zones - the AT company is forced to be on the syrian left of the complex, a platoon plus of green infantry is forced to set-up on the right, with the rest spread across the four buildings. As my friend and were playing live via network play I didn't feel I had time to adjust the provided set-up to much (more on that later), but I did move a sniper team out of the Offices and put them into the Warehouse, and fiddled a bit with the saggers so they had a chance of a side shots on US vehicles. The Offices were already isolated and didnt feel like throwing a sniper team away. I didn't man the bunkers as they stand out like sore thumbs and are immediately targetted. In the read Admin Building there was a command squad, a sniper team and an observation team which spotted for batteries of 152mm.  The observer let his first barrage go at minute one as pre-registered as airburst (a mistake) over the zone forward of the factory. As much as possible I hid everyone for as long as possible (too long perhaps, another mistake).

Broadly, the Abrams advanced with Bradleys behind, followed by the Strykers with the big guns shooting up the left and right flanks. Mostly the green Syrians cowered or ran as soon as they heard firing. A highpoint was one Sagger team destroying an Abrams (IIRC), but they quickly retreated from supporting vehicles return fire. The left bunker was first thing targetted along with the two bunkers on the right. The right flank was more misery as the Syrians were shot up by Bradleys and Abrams and friends who all stayed well out of RPG range. No more right and left flanks.

Once the flanks were cleared the factory assault began, but one Abrams was immobilised by the minefield. By then the US second wave had arrived and Strykers began to pour fire into the factory.  The Strykers advanced to far into the complex and two went down to RPG fire, and several US squads were shatted by heavy infantry fire. A trade-off was the Syrian special forces squad (rated Crack) all died in the firefight.  However, the Syrians kept holding on moving about the rear of the building, attempting to force the US to move adjacent and take point blank fire as they did so.  Unfortunately, the US was on the roof and was using that advantage to interdict my own movement upstairs. The Syrian's knew all this was coming and planned their all batteries barrage onto the complex itself.

While that was happening, other Strykers were streaming past the Factory and moving infantry to assault the Warehouse and Admin buildings, (they'd taken the Offices and were using the roof to spot for OBA). I didn't have many units to defend those buidlings  - a few squads and the threat of RPGs. All the buidlings are awkwardly constructed with several windowless walls and limited internal doorways so we both had to be super careful about orders in case our fellas ran into the streets and firelanes.

Anyway, while all this was happening, the cavalry arrived! yeeha! The ten T-62s will save the day right?

As soon as the T-62s appeared (in a very close clump of vehicles which is unlikely to be a realistic tactical employment) they started firing and knocked out three US vehicles. In the first orders phase after they appeared, I decided the best thing to do with them was to move Fast/Quick forward so they could move and shoot (a mistake) more out of position US vehicles, for the BRDMs to  get hull down and seek out targets. In response, the Abram, strykers, TOWs and Bradleys plus Apaches had a field day with all reinforcements knocked out in 2-3 minutes. Nope, the cavalry didn't save us. The ERA blocks weren't enough to save the vehicles from repeated hits.

Anyhow, the US returned to the grind of clearing out the complex, and once my last OBA ended and due to the hour of the night, I called for a ceasefire.

Here's the result (sad face): 

 

All credit to my opponent Andrew who played a very careful game. The US ground objective wasn't realised at the ceasefire as some objectives weren't solely controlled, but with a lot of time on the clock, the US would have captured all the buildings.

Some things I liked/didn't like about the scenario:

 - I've got to do better playing old soviet armor. Researching the T-62 tells me they have poor move and shoot abilities, so a better play would be to move and then shoot from a halt, rather than shooting while moving. Syrians can only hope that Apaches aren't around when they enter.

- Set-up and reinforcements entry is to restrictive and probably not according to doctine. Why would Syrians put Saggers in front line when they have a 500 meter minimum range? reinforcements cant be entered as the player prefers but arrive as one tight group - only 2-3 spaces between vehicles which is weird. Se-up should allow the human player to put the Syrians anywhere behind the current most forward Red set-up zone, and let the player use their judgement on the spread of forces. There's no possibility of moving mines or trenches in front of the Factory, making for boring repeated play as H2H.

- The victory conditions are unbalanced. Despite the designer notes saying that both sides get the chance for equal points, the Blue Force can score 1500 points and the Red force 1200. The specific allocations are unbalanced as well - for instance if the Syrians keep their own casualties below 50% then they get 200 points which is completely unrealistic (it should be 90-95% casualties), and Red force gets 200 pts if they score 35% casualties against Blue (the % is way to high). There is also a pts allocation of 400 pts for elimating the US force or share there-off - the only points Red force scored (184 of 400, or 46%). The VC are complicated (they need a monte carlo simulation to work out if both sides have a chance of winning the game) and as usual not shown to the players before they start.

- Red force should have some anti-air capabilities.

- There are some entrenchments near the Factory, why would Syrians occupy those? My only idea is to use them in some reverse slope/ambush/enfilade position and man them with RPGs (or RCLs if they can be moved from the left flank) and avoid the backblast, but they'd be exposed with few retreat options (depends on access to buildings' door ways). Though that's something to explore.

Overall, I did like the contest and there were some dramatic moments (a cheap as chips Sagger defying the odds to take out an Abrams), but overall the balance as a game (where both players have an equal chance of winning the game even though Red force will get hammered) is probably 75-80% in Blue's favour.  I'd reduce the length of the scenario, allow Red set-up across one deployment zone, change the deployment of Red reinforcements to be more tactically aware, and change the VC to have the US only score points for the ground captured, while Red only score points for US casualties.  Another change I'd make is to bump the Conscripts to Green and Green units to Regular.

Have you played this scenario? What do you think?

THH

 

I think just change the parameters. US forces follow Norman Schwarzkopf philosophy of one body-bag is one too many. As Syrian you need just to kill one HQ unit for example or take out an Abrams Tank. The Americans probably end up with a Pyrrhic Victory so be it, get too many of them and the public will protest and vote for a withdrawal. Yesterday I lost one Warrior IFV didn't realize they built only a thousand of them. Today at Al Amarah two Strykers and with 5 killed ended up with a major victory only as I failed the parameters for a total victory. 

[THH149]

I re-tried this one against the AI as the SAA, kind of a worse outcome. Some highlights - at least a few heroes on my team: 

 

[THH149]

This fella needs a medal and a promotion to Regular for destroying an Abrams ...

[THH149]

A much closer game against the AI as compared to the H2H attempt, mainly because the AI just stopped advancing in the objective buidlings despite still considerable combat power, allowing the SAA to prevent their US control.