Artillery control advice please?

[Vacillator]

Just had some fun with Livorno Pride in FI, big thanks to @theFightingSeabee (although you may not have visited in a while).

It is basically an exercise in artillery control, in which it seems I suck big time.  Although I still managed a US total victory on Elite with only a Jeep and driver lost, thanks to careful Ranger positioning and ammo conservation / distribution added to the fact that the Livorno battalion sadly have little or no chance, I have to admit the following:

1.   It's an hour long scenario but I only managed 4 off-map FFEs, 3 from USS Savanagh (which was meant to be the star of the show) and one from land-based guns.  Given that the first FFE was on set-up and probably the most successful, that's not so good.

2.  The reason for this seemed to be that I had only one FO able to call them in and even on a TRP there was an 11+ minute wait.  I did have a scout unit linked to the FO but perhaps it was too far way for C2 as it could never call in the off-map stuff.  None of the HQs could either.

3. My TRP placement was not as good as I'd hoped, as I generally couldn't use them as I was waiting for the FO to be free.

4.  I had to adjust one strike from Savanagh, wasting another 5 minutes or so.  It totally missed all the same, hitting the original line.

5.  The last FFE (again form Savanagh) could have been critical, as the Ranger ammo was getting low.  Although targeted exactly on the line of the Italian approach, it also missed by perhaps 100m on a parallel line.

So my main question is, has anyone done an artillery 'How to' set of instructions for incompetents like me?  If not can anyone share tips on how to do better than I did?

I have other questions about why units didn't share ammo even if in the same room, but that's probably best left for another post.

[Erwin]

14 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

why units didn't share ammo even if in the same room,

Unless there has been another update/patch that changed how things work, units from the same formation will share ammo (if one unit is out of ammo) on a magazine by magazine basis if close enuff.  If they are from different formations they will not (for reasons in the game that are not explained).

[Vacillator]

52 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Unless there has been another update/patch that changed how things work, units from the same formation will share ammo (if one unit is out of ammo) on a magazine by magazine basis if close enuff.  If they are from different formations they will not (for reasons in the game that are not explained).

Ah, thanks Erwin.  I'll have to check but that may well be the reason. 

I had MG units with little or no ammo in the same room as split squads or HQs who I had trundled back to an ammo truck and a jeep with lots of ammo.  They got back with the right ammo but it wasn't shared, so your explanation is looking likely.

On a side note was I right that I have to get a unit back to the ammo truck (I actually mounted it just to make sure) so that they can aquire ammo?  I tried parking the truck next to a building with a unit in it but they didn't get anything or have the acquire command become available.  Of course it could be the same reason (different formations) again?

[MOS:96B2P]

4 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

On a side note was I right that I have to get a unit back to the ammo truck (I actually mounted it just to make sure) so that they can aquire ammo?  I tried parking the truck next to a building with a unit in it but they didn't get anything or have the acquire command become available.  Of course it could be the same reason (different formations) again?

You can Acquire ammo and/or Share ammo. 

To Acquire ammo a team needs to be in a vehicle with ammo or in the same action spot of an ammo dump.  Acquire  allows for the taking of thousands of rounds and AT weapons.  The vehicle does not have to be in the same platoon as the Acquiring fire team.  

Ammo sharing distance is two action spots (about 16 meters).  Ammo sharing only takes place within an organizational unit (whatever highlights when you click that unit is a more practical definition).  Basically ammo sharing is within the same platoon and within 16 meters.   Sharing is done in small amounts, about a magazine at a time as @Erwin said.   

Probably the easiest way to observe ammo sharing is to move a mortar ammo bearer team (with mortar rounds) to within 16 meters of the mortar.  Then move the ammo bearers away.  In the user interface for the mortar you will see the number of mortar rounds available to the mortar team increase and decrease as the ammo bearers move in and out of ammo sharing range. 

In some cases a vehicle parked next to a building can share ammo with a fire team inside the building.  For the fire team to Acquire ammo from that same vehicle they would need to enter the vehicle. 

Edited October 30, 2020 by MOS:96B2P

[Vacillator]

Excellent advice, many thanks @MOS:96B2P.  I am learning .

Don't suppose you have similar advice on my artillery issues in the first post?  It was probably just bad execution on my part...

[MOS:96B2P]

2 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

Excellent advice, many thanks @MOS:96B2P.  I am learning .

Don't suppose you have similar advice on my artillery issues in the first post?  It was probably just bad execution on my part...

I've not played this scenario but did open it. 

Some heavy off map artillery can only be requested by an FO.   Even a HQ team can't request very heavy off map assets.  In the CM WW 2 titles a scout can't request any artillery, on or off map.  It seems all your heavy off map requests could be handled by only one team in this scenario.  However, during Setup phase the FO team can request multiple fire missions from multiple assets against different targets.  So the first turn all your assets could start firing at different targeted areas.  I might give all the heavy off map assets a light mission with maximum duration against the likely OpFor avenues of approach.  Then adjust during the mission.

Be aware this adjustment will cause problems in some CM titles.  This is because if you adjust one mission all the original (setup fire missions from the same spotter) fire missions will adjust onto the same new target.  However the last I knew CMFI, CMSF & CMA did not have this problem.  CMBN, CMRT, CMFB & CMBS did have this problem. 

If CMFI does now also have this problem I would probably still do the above.  It's the only way to get all heavy off map assets firing on turn one in this scenario.                

[Vacillator]

17 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

However, during Setup phase the FO team can request multiple fire missions from multiple assets against different targets.     

Wow, I did not know this, how did I miss that!  My learning continues...  And yes the USS Savanagh is pretty heavy duty so perhaps only FO.

20 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Be aware this adjustment will cause problems in some CM titles.  This is because if you adjust one mission all the original (setup fire missions from the same spotter) fire missions will adjust onto the same new target.

I did however read this somewhere, will have to try it in RT, BN and FI and see what happens.

Thanks again, much appreciated!

[Vacillator]

At the risk of replying to myself, my investigations have revealed;

Yes the lack of ammo sharing was due to units being from different formations.

Yes a single FO can place multiple arty strikes in the set-up phase prior to the first turn- big news to me .

Thanks @Erwin and @MOS:96B2P for the wisdom .

[rocketman]

1 hour ago, Vacilllator said:

At the risk of replying to myself, my investigations have revealed;

Yes the lack of ammo sharing was due to units being from different formations.

Yes a single FO can place multiple arty strikes in the set-up phase prior to the first turn- big news to me .

Thanks @Erwin and @MOS:96B2P for the wisdom .

Note though that if you want to adjust one of the pre-planned missions, the FO will adjust both to the new target. Also, if the pre-planned had a tme delay, that delay is added once more. Don’t know if these things are intended behaviour or bugs. The same thing goes for HQs.

[Erwin]

In terms of strategic thinking re what spotter/FO to use for which arty piece, it doesn't matter when doing preplanned barrages so long as the barrage is desired to end after a certain duration/number of shells and not be adjusted. 

However, if you expect to want to adjust the fire of any preplanned arty (eg: you choose HARASS, MAXIMUM adn excpect to choose different targets as your troops advance), it's best to make sure that the best spotting unit (ie fastest to call the arty battery) is the one to allocate for that battery.  The better the experience and speed to battery call, the faster the adjustment and the more accurate the FFE.

And yes, it is safest to use a different spotter for each battery just in case one wants to adjust that battery later.