Javelin vs Russian Tanks. National Interest article

[John Kettler]

Was researching something else, when this popped up. Well worth a read and pertinent to the game.

In 2003, here are combat performance figures for the Javelin in one engagement. Italics mine. Not sure what else got engaged (since the targets destroyed don't equal the number of hits), but the numbers are eye-popping.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/how-americas-military-would-kill-russias-tanks-war-19847

(Fair Use)

"However, the Javelin finally entered service with the U.S. military in 1996 after the Cold War had ended, and first saw action in 2003 during the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

At the time, the United States was not able to deploy troops in Northern Iraq by land, so it instead air dropped Special Forces and paratroopers that fought alongside Kurdish peshmerga fighters. In the Battle of Debecka Pass, a force of a few dozen Special Forces operators and a larger peshmerga contingent engaged and destroyed an Iraqi mechanized company of over a hundred soldiers. The U.S. force had just 4 Javelin launch units. Nineteen Javelins missiles were fired, seventeen of which hit, destroying two T-55 tanks, eight MT-LB armored personnel carriers, and several trucks. Reportedly, all of the Javelins shots were made at 2,200 meters range or further—close to or exceeding the official maximum range of the weapon—and one hit was even reported at 4,200 meters."

The story of the Battle of Debecka Pass (referenced in the quote) is a great read and provides a great deal of information about the particulars of the engagement, which was hard fought even with massive air support in use. Both it and the first article talk about successful Javelin engagements at practically twice the official range.

http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/battle-debecka-pass-roughnecks-war/

Regards,

John Kettler

[Artkin]

War is so fair!

[John Kettler]

Am surprised no one's really responded to the information I presented and to the linked account of the referenced battle. Did people already know this stuff before I posted? I sure didn't.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

 

[exsonic01]

I knew and read about Debecka Pass, but national interest article is new to me. Contents about future plan in page 3 is really interesting. 

When I first read about Javelin scored 4000m+ target kill, I was surprised about that. CMBS Javelin may should do the same, I think. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by exsonic01

[John Kettler]

exsonic,

That info has me wondering whether such range was hidden for security reasons or so as not to jeopardize Army and derivative Marine plans to field something to replace TOW as the US heavy ATGM. Imagine the howls were BFC to extend Javelin range to 4000 meters. Of course, finding such a shot is another matter entirely. As far as I'm concerned, if a weapon can do "X" in real combat, then it ought to be able to do that in CMBS or whatever other CM may be applicable. 

Regards,

John Kettler

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I don't think I've ever played a map big enough to find out TBH, I guess there must be some out there, but I've not found them.

Debecka Pass is pretty much Javelin doing in the 21st century in Iraq what Milan did in the 20th century in Chad:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_War

A friend of mine was working in Libya while much of this went on, despite being an Englishman working for a French company!  He was in Tripoli when Reagan had it bombed too, he and his workmates put a big Union Jack on the roof of the building they lived in.  Libyan police turned up once the smoke settled, to check that none of the people (all 'infidel' foreigners) had been hurt, no mention of the flag was made.  War is a weird thing.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Sgt.Squarehead

[John Kettler]

Sgt.Squarehead,

I knew Milan saw some action during the Toyota War, but I had no idea there were 400 Milan armed pickups attacking the Libyans! Did your friend need a wardrobe change after the US airstrikes? I got to see the footage myself after requesting it from the Pentagon. The Operations Analysis Department watched it in rapt attention. Wanted to keep the tape, but the Pentagon made us give it back.

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited March 26, 2017 by John Kettler

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I think he was more freaked when the Police turned up.....The UK had just let the US use it's bases to bomb Libya, so the last thing he expected from them was, apparently genuine and sincere, enquiries as to his health!