Guest KwazyDog Posted July 1, 1999 Share Posted July 1, 1999 Hi all. Was just wondering how the time between battle in a campaign is set? Is it random, player set or preset? Hmm, also, one more quick one. I noticed a while back you guys were looking in a work around for the problem of bridges and some having roads under them, etc (Arhnem was mentioned if I recall). Did you guys come up with anything here? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted July 1, 1999 Share Posted July 1, 1999 The time between battles is abstracted, not according to a 24hr clock as we had originally designed it to be. There were a whole host of game problems with doing this so we dropped it (at least for CM's first version). Yes, we did manage to get roads under bridges. It isn't perfect, and was a big pain in the butt to do, but it is there and working. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatsby Posted July 1, 1999 Share Posted July 1, 1999 That's a shame...re the 24hour clock...so how then will you do the night day thing...surise...twilight etc.. or will none of that be there? Next question: Did I see somewhere that you will have no wind...won'tt that be kinda of unrealistic via vis smoke...smoke greandes..etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted July 1, 1999 Share Posted July 1, 1999 Awesome! Bridges and other cool stuff. As far as wind, I think that having wind might actually reduce the impact of smoke. Wind does spread smoke around, but tears it into tactically-useless tatters at the same time. In addition, to get any really "large-scale-useful" smoke (ie not just one vehicle popping smoke to hide; rather smoke to hide the movement of groups of units) don't you need a LOT of smoke? You'd be using up your whole artillery support for smoke. Either that or setting fire to everything in sight. Anyway, glad to see there're roads under bridges. I don't know how well I could use them tactically, but it'll be nice to use as victory locations, map diversity, etc. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted July 1, 1999 Share Posted July 1, 1999 As I said, the time is done abstractly. So battle 1 might be in daylight, a long pause, and then battle two during the night. I won't go into the issues of why the 24hr clock was abandoned, but it was going to be really hard to do up right. The end effect for the gamer is the same. As for wind, oh my God would that be tough Seriously, there are at least two threads about smoke you can look over. It is physically impossible for us to do realistically thanks to graphical limitations. Not to mention the physics of wind is an entire simulation all by itself (air pressure, terrain layout, etc. have to be figured in). No smoke grenades either. There was a long and heated debate about this on the old message boards, but the upshot is that nobody could prove to us that they were common and/or used for concealment in WWII so we removed them from the game. The only defense came from the ASL/SL crowd that said, "well, ASL had it..." As everyone knows, we don't like to do things just because someone else did it In fact, it was because of ASL that we put in smoke grenades in the first place, but we removed them when we couldn't verify their historical use. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted July 1, 1999 Share Posted July 1, 1999 Hi Steve, I have no problem with the lack of smoke grenade use by infantry. However I just recently read two books with quotes about extensive use of smoke by tanks. One quote was by a Brit tanker in an attack in the Caen area. I would have to double check the other but it was by an American tanker. So will tanks have smoke ammo available or are them some technical limitations to providing within the game? Thanks, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 Thanks for the reply Steve. From my point of view, the 24 clock would have been nice, but the random time should serve fine. I image that you will still be able to randomise reinforcements, etc. Will the time between battles still be tracked, even though it is abstracted? For example, will we still know what the date is, and what the time of the battle is? ie: The last battle was on the 24th of Jan at 2pm, and the next is at 25th of Jan at 3am. Just wondering, as I know you guys wouldnt have moved away from the 24hr clock thing unless absolutely necessary Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 Ken brings up a good point. I thought at least the Germans (and perhaps others as well) had quite a number of tank models fitted w/ smoke dischargers / smoke grenade launchers. How often they were used, how many smoke rounds they carried, etc. I do not know. I also thought several nations (not sure which ones) had smoke rounds for the main guns of the tanks, or was this post WWII??? Also, will the close in antipersonnel (grenade?) devices fitted on many of the later war / heavy Germans tanks be modeled in the game? Can't remember what those things are called, but I'm pretty sure they are on the at least the King Tiger in Close Combat 3. Seems like this came up before, but I can't remember, so if it has, my appologies. Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 Im 99.9% sure both smoke discharges and the neblblahblah (antipersonal discharges, dont know how to spell it ) which were fitted to tanks are simulated in the game. I 'think' smoke rounds are in too, for arty, I cant imagine they wouldnt be..is this right anyone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 Hi Mike, Actually I was referring to use of main gun smoke shells. In quick referral, I found two references on pages 45 and 52 of "Tank Tracks" in which Brit tanks fired smoke in action at Caen. The first reference appears to be the use of smoke to reform the squadron. The second reference was in response to enemy fire. That is also a good question about smoke discharges, etc. as well. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 Regarding smoke... tanks and artillery can fire smoke, and tanks that were fitted with smoke mortars do have them. In fact, the AI is pretty good about using them too. It is cool to see your Sherman going down a street, as order, have something shoot at it, watch it pop smoke and toss it into reverse in hopes of getting out of LOS. Since the AI does plot for a "LOS haven" it works so long as someone doesn't zap it first or some other threat comes into play. German tanks that had the nebelblabla thingy do have them. All of these features are in. Charles gave me the specifics on the passage of time between battles, as coded, but I forget and I have never played a campaign I'll get back to you when I find out! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 As for the time clock in campaigns, it's pretty simple. The designer specifies how many battles there will be per day. The first battle is a "dawn" battle with somewhat limited visibility, high chance of fog, etc. The last battle of the "day" is a night battle. Often times only one side is allowed to initiate contact at night and if he refuses to do so, the fighting is skipped (but reorganization and refit still occur). Battles in the middle are all regular daylight battles. By the way, it's called a nahverteidigungswaffe and yes, CM has them. No wonder the Germans lost WW2. They were sitting around going "Es ist ein Nahve... ein Nahvert... Früh wußte ich, was es war... ein Nahvertigung... Es ist gut, daß wir besser kämpfen, als ich buchstabieren kann, ja Kamerad? Es ist ein Nahver... Mein Gott! Die Russen!" NOTE TO THE HUMOR IMPAIRED: The preceding was a joke! I swear to God! NOTE TO THOSE OFFENDED BY TAKING THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN: I didn't mean it! Aliens made me say that! NOTE TO THOSE OFFENDED BY REALLY BAD ENGLISH-TO-GERMAN TRANSLATIONS: The preceding German, bad grammar and all, is compliments of the twisted minds at Big Time Software, and the good people (and AI) at <url>http://babelfish.altavista.digital.com</url>. Try it out! You are to the be offending many peoples badly in native tongues! Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 That is, nahverteidigungswaffe, hehehe Damn, not one 'b' in there, I was a long way off. Thanks for the info Charles. It seems that even though the time between battles is pretty much determined by the system, it is still in chronological order (damn, another word I cant spell, hehe, and that one is in English) Sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 LOL. "Scheiße, wo der Hebel für das nahvergungsteidnwaffenbittescheisse ist. Die Russen! Feuer Gunner der grosse Rauch, der JETZT Sache auf dem Dach bildet! ARGH!!!." Gees Babblefish really screws up translations doesn't it? .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 There was (I swear I'm not making this up) an occurrence wherein a US President back in the 80s (I believe it was Reagan) gave a speech in Poland and the real-time translation came across as some sort of personal insult involving bodily regions and things like that. I don't remember where I read this, but I SWEAR it's the truth. DjB Ach, Gott in Himmel! Schmidt hat der Bucket gekicked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhet Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Ach, Gott in Himmel! Schmidt hat der Bucket gekicked!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Nein, Herr Schmidt hat der bucket gekicked nicht. Wovon sprechen Sie? ------------------ Rhet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 You guys should better watch out before the German Language Police finds this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhet Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 I thought only the French have language police. ------------------ Rhet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 Haha!! Good one BTW, to get this thread back on topic... Rhet do you have the TO&E of a French Language Police Squad? Sorry, couldn't help but poke fun at the French there. We game companies (and the entertainment industry in general) have a big beef to pick with the French government's attempts to control the destiny of their language through legislation. But BF.C doesn't have to worry about this because we don't have "boxes" on store shelves and therefore can't get into trouble. Well, until they start trying to clamp down on the Internet Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 BTS said <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> As for the time clock in campaigns, it's pretty simple. The designer specifies how many battles there will be per day. The first battle is a "dawn" battle with somewhat limited visibility, high chance of fog, etc. The last battle of the "day" is a night battle. Often times only one side is allowed to initiate contact at night and if he refuses to do so, the fighting is skipped (but reorganization and refit still occur). Battles in the middle are all regular daylight battles. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Does this mean that all campaigns must start in the morning? The reason I ask is that some battles began at night. It would be nice if we could specify a dawn, day, dusk or night start time for a campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted July 2, 1999 Share Posted July 2, 1999 There will be some mechanism to determin the starting time of a campaign. Right now we have two ideas, but can't say which one and how it will work until we choose Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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