Bulletpoint Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) So, yesterday I had played a "quick" battle lasting the whole day. I thought I had won but just needed to round up the last broken resistance. How wrong I was! The map itself is narrow but very long, so all the broken enemy squads had been swept down to the back where they ended up in a dead end. As I approached extremely carefully and well planned (small bounding advances on "hunt" orders...), I suddenly started to run into resistance. Believing it would only be a couple of enemy, I sent more and more troops forward, but they got cut down one by one. I got increasingly frustrated and started sending more troops in, more recklessly, surely I could overwhelm the last feeble resistance.. Couldn't believe how strong the enemy had become, after all I had meticulously worn down several lines of defense, and now, in the last 50 metres of tall grass, I was being destroyed. Finally, I hit Cease Fire, and checked the map. I counted a lot of half squads, with 9 (nine!) MG42s hidden in a 100x100 metre area of tall grass. Every single enemy squad was "broken", which meant they just hid in the grass, blasting anything that moved. There was no real careful way I could have approached, overwatch didn't work because the enemy was lying down in the grass. I had no artillery or mortars left, and there was no real suitable location with LOF to that little corner of the map. Only way to approach was walking over the edge of a hill. So, in effect, in defeat the the enemy had become more powerful than they had been to begin with. Normally, they surrender when they all become broken, I have no idea why this did not happen this time. I wonder if there was anything I could have done to break that situation... Edited June 22, 2015 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Believing it would only be a couple of enemy, I sent more and more troops forward, but they got cut down one by one. Do not let your imagination set your rules of engagement. Treat every threat as a serious threat, and always act decisively. Laying down a heavy area fire from multiple directions would have probably caused all of them to surrender. Failing that, just hit ceasefire after you have secured all objectives to your satisfaction, you were not being forced to annihilate the enemy. It's very rare the A.I. does not auto surrender if it has been destroyed. How many men were left as a portion of the starting force? How much time was on the clock? Were there any scheduled reinforcements that might have not arrived yet? What did the terrain look like, could you approach the enemy position from more than one direction? How much ammo and men did you have left? There are many different ways you could have resolved that situation, but sending your men in piecemeal is not the way to do it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Do not let your imagination set your rules of engagement. Treat every threat as a serious threat, and always act decisively. Laying down a heavy area fire from multiple directions would have probably caused all of them to surrender. Failing that, just hit ceasefire after you have secured all objectives to your satisfaction, you were not being forced to annihilate the enemy. It's very rare the A.I. does not auto surrender if it has been destroyed. How many men were left as a portion of the starting force? How much time was on the clock? Were there any scheduled reinforcements that might have not arrived yet? What did the terrain look like, could you approach the enemy position from more than one direction? How much ammo and men did you have left? There are many different ways you could have resolved that situation, but sending your men in piecemeal is not the way to do it. Many good points to consider, but I believe I had taken into account nearly everything. Problem was that because of the lay of the land there was very limited ways I could have put on suppressive fire, and those positions also made the gunners vulnerable to massive withering return fire at short ranges. But yes, part of the problem was underestimating the enemy. I'd say it must have been about 1/3 to half the original force. Also, the reason I sent troops in piecemeal was that I tried to have the rest do overwatch. It was only after I had already taken losses that I started to realise those overwatch elements were not spotting anything because of the enemy being in tall grass. It was a case of anyone standing up falling down dead immediately. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 Anyway, I don't consider myself a bad player - just wanted to share a moment of total tactical failure 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 But yes, part of the problem was underestimating the enemy. I'd say it must have been about 1/3 to half the original force. No wonder they didn't surrender beforehand. Anyway, I don't consider myself a bad player - just wanted to share a moment of total tactical failure Nor did I intend to make that implication. Bad luck is just bad luck after all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 They fell back into a concentrated reverse slope defense. If you'd had any arty left, they'd've been fish in a barrel if you could get an observer with eyes-on. Or some cautious armour, even light stuff, would have let you crest the rise; I presume it was an infantry engagement, though. Beyond that, some Slow creeping might have let you get in mutual (rather than one-sided) combat... Or a different approach vector might've given your overwatch eyes-on the lurkers-in-the-grass. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 They fell back into a concentrated reverse slope defense. If you'd had any arty left, they'd've been fish in a barrel if you could get an observer with eyes-on. Or some cautious armour, even light stuff, would have let you crest the rise; I presume it was an infantry engagement, though. Beyond that, some Slow creeping might have let you get in mutual (rather than one-sided) combat... Or a different approach vector might've given your overwatch eyes-on the lurkers-in-the-grass. I was cursing myself for having spent all the 105s But it's always a tradeoff. No good finishing the battle with 20 odd shells sitting unused. I think you're right about the slow creep being a way to crack this situation. It was a pure infantry game. After 2 years in the bocage I like some open air and armoured infantry battles. Too bad I hadn't saved the game midway for a retry, maybe I'll just start over and see how it goes. Reverse slope defenses are extremely nasty.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I was cursing myself for having spent all the 105s But it's always a tradeoff. No good finishing the battle with 20 odd shells sitting unused. I think you're right about the slow creep being a way to crack this situation. It was a pure infantry game. After 2 years in the bocage I like some open air and armoured infantry battles. Too bad I hadn't saved the game midway for a retry, maybe I'll just start over and see how it goes. Reverse slope defenses are extremely nasty.. I tend to save every turn, just in case the rig falls over. Reverse slope defenses are, indeed, nasty. In-game and in real life It's interesting that you'd only geeked a bit more than half the enemy by the time they'd broken and settled in at their base line. A consequence of infantry-only battles? Or did the AI force picker take a very low motivation selection for some reason? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) I tend to save every turn, just in case the rig falls over. Reverse slope defenses are, indeed, nasty. In-game and in real life It's interesting that you'd only geeked a bit more than half the enemy by the time they'd broken and settled in at their base line. A consequence of infantry-only battles? Or did the AI force picker take a very low motivation selection for some reason? I was surprised too, it's the first time I see it happen. Possibly a consequence of a lucky artillery hit on a high-ranking officer early in the battle, it seems that makes the rest of them quite brittle. I go for "tiny" scale infantry only battles on quite large maps, with automatic selection of forces for both me and the computer opponent. So it's possible they had low morale, I don't know. About reverse slope defenses, I suspect the game's system of Action Squares makes attacking infantry even more vulnerable. In real life, infantry would be able to approach very gradually to peek over the crest, but in the game, it's either advance 8 metres (one square) or nothing. I've started using HUNT to some effect to counteract this, as troops will then gradually come into view of the enemy, and duck down when fired upon, hopefully before they fully enter the exposed tile. Edited June 23, 2015 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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