Fade2Gray Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I've already noticed how there seems to be 3 "tech levels" for armies when it comes to Black Sea. The USA is on top, then Russia, and Ukraine is on the bottom. All fine and dandy, but is the Oplot M really so bad? I've noticed when I play Dueling... whatever its called (Ukraine vs Russia in a scenario battle) that Ukraine has a helluva time spotting Russian tanks first. The Russians always seem to spot and fire first. I pegged it to the T-90AM being a lot better, but its not even AMs you face off in that mission, just T-90A MBTs. So is the Oplot M, with its modern FCS, thermals, and CITV, really that much worse compared to the T-90A? I know its armor isn't anything special, but I seem to have assumed wrong that its FCS is at least on par if not better than the Russians, and its a bit frustrating. I can deal with IFVs and APCs being worse, but having worse tanks is a bit painful to say the least. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) I found the T-84 spotting ability pretty good. A single case can not speak for all the possible situations. Besides, there are many factors that influence spotting ability of any vehicle, and the vehicle itself is just one of them. Edited April 24, 2015 by Kieme(ITA) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H1nd Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 From my combat experience, I consider the OplotM to be very near equal to t-90. All tho my experience is rather limited with t-90 since as Russians I prefer to buy the cheaper t-72b3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emccabe Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Well I have had some problems spotting with the t64 which could not spot a tank about 20 meters in front of it without turning out the commander. But from the most part the bulat and oplot have preformed just fine.Even though I do agree with you and find it frustrating that some medium tier the russian tanks can out spot the oplot, but besides that one mission you mentioned the oplots optics seem work just fine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fade2Gray Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 I found the T-84 spotting ability pretty good. A single case can not speak for all the possible situations. Besides, there are many factors that influence spotting ability of any vehicle, and the vehicle itself is just one of them. If you are assuming this is a single case from one single play through of a mission, you are horribly mistaken. As a fan of T-80s, I like playing as Ukraine. However, several play throughs of that mission have shown that the Oplot M usually gets spotted and shot at before it even has a clue it is under attack. When I tried playing through as the Russians instead, the mission is much much easier. Even without targetting cones, the T-90s get shots off first the vast majority of the time. As the T-90A doesn't have a CITV and the Oplot-M does, I'm baffled by this and wondering why this is the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I don't play the Ukrainians often, but I got the same feel for the Oplot. I know it's not western level optics, but it seems in terms of technological capabilities at least similar to most Russian sensors in performance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) Fade2Gray,Welcome aboard!I find your question intriguing, since so far I've only played as Americans and Russians. I think Oplot M is cool looking but know very little about its sensors. In terms of tank duels, I'm guessing your integral ERA isn't much help vs Russian DU, right? Finally, what's a targeting cone, please? Is that the same as a Cover Armor Arc?Regards,John Kettler Edited April 24, 2015 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fade2Gray Posted April 25, 2015 Author Share Posted April 25, 2015 Fade2Gray, Welcome aboard! I find your question intriguing, since so far I've only played as Americans and Russians. I think Oplot M is cool looking but know very little about its sensors. In terms of tank duels, I'm guessing your integral ERA isn't much help vs Russian DU, right? Finally, what's a targeting cone, please? Is that the same as a Cover Armor Arc? Regards, John Kettler Whenever the tanks fire on each other, generally its a one hit kill. Doesn't matter if its the Oplot firing on a T-90A, or vice versa, when they fire their target dies. My issue is why how the Oplot seems vastly inferior when it comes to actually spotting a Russian unit and firing before getting shot in turn. Dueling Shashkas(sp?) frustrates me greatly when I play as Ukraine, because the tank fighting is always pretty one sided in favor of the Russians. When I play as the Russian side, its like I'm playing easy mode, yeah I'll lose some tanks, but T-90s pretty much clean house against the Oplot. Combine with how BMP-3s are vastly superior to BTR-4s, the mission feels like a cake walk when I'm playing as the Russians. I just tried playing twice as Ukraine with the "author mode" today and being using targetting arcs to try to help the Oplots out, and I often still lose tanks before getting any shots off in return. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kieme(ITA) Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 (edited) Again, when it comes to spotting, being your enemy units or yours, there are many factors to be taken into account, here is a list: -crew motivation -crew experience level -crew leadership modifier -crew fitness -crew condition (ok, nervous, shaken, rattled etc.) -crew suppression level -weather conditions -distance to the target -presence of elements within the LOS (trees, bushes etc.) -elevation differences -position relevant to the target (front, side/front, side, rear, just to say a few) Moreover, additional influence might be given by chain of command, other units spotting at the same time and communicating with each other, etc. on both sides. We don't know how you play the specific scenario, you might be repeating mistakes, bad positioning of units, being spotted by enemy units you don't spot etc. There are too many factors. So, you can do as many playthrough as you wish but until some real data is put into the equation it's just a personal feeling, that's all. PS: I just checked, and after a very first quick look I can already see that you are comparing T-84 Oplot with regular crew against T-90a with veteran crew, as you can see this is a very first signal that will point to the result you find strange, while I find it consistent with this very first and simple information. And before you wonder, yes, a difference in training level can be very important when it comes to few seconds of game time. As much as I would not even know how to turn the turret of an abrams if I happen to be inside it (Kieme, conscript, motivation poor, leadership -2). Edited April 25, 2015 by Kieme(ITA) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I just played this scenario and it didn't strike me that the Oplot was that bad at spotting. It was basically 50%-50%. There is a lot of variability it seems. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.