poesel Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 TL;DR: there should be no close distance target penalty for tanks vs tanks, ejecting tank crews should not get that immunity and TCs should button up earlier when faced with direct threats I have experienced some odd behaviour of the AI - not a real bug but really close to one. Also this is not an everyday occurrence but nothing too far fetched IMHO. Ok: tank vs tank in really bad weather at night. LOS tool says about 130m but spotting distance for non-shooters is about 20m actually. All participants are unbuttoned and staionary. Situation 1: Sherman and Puma meet and spot each other roughly the same time at a distance of 10m. I'm playing Allies here but I can see the Puma move its turret. What happens: nothing. 20 seconds nothing. This is the added target time for close distance. That is ok for balancing against infantry but for tank vs tank it makes no sense. Also both TCs stay unbuttoned. The especially brave for the Puma TC since he does not only face the 75mm main gun but also the other TC has a HMG at hand. If they are not allowed to use the tank they could at least have drawn their pistols! Situation 2: same weather, this time three IVs surprise a Sherman (me as Axis). What happens: again 20 seconds nothing. Then a IV pulls first and wrecks the Sherman. Its crew survives, jumps out and are confused for a few seconds. But the IVs do not fire - it looks like the close target penalty kicks in again because it is a new unit. The Sherman crew pulls itself together, draw their pistols and fire at the 3 IVs. Very brave. Also very brave the IV TCs who stay unbuttoned but can't fire back. Finally the crew nails one TC whose tank retreats in disarray. 20 seconds pass, the remaining two IVs open up, kill two of the crew and the rest surrenders. That is all very funny and makes good material for AARs but still the AI behaviour should receive a little tweaking for these cases. Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted December 9, 2014 Author Share Posted December 9, 2014 Pics or it didn't happen! Ok, no problem. Situation 1 (no one shoots for 20 seconds): Situation 2 (after the Sherman was blasted, only the tank crew shoots for 20 seconds): 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 TCs should button up earlier when faced with direct threats Agreed...! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 What happens: again 20 seconds nothing. Because the loader was fumbling with the shell? One of the charms of CM is the unaccountable even bizarre event that surfaces from time to time. There's also the spotting sequence. But if this happens too frequently then, yes, it's a flaw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 Because the loader was fumbling with the shell? One of the charms of CM is the unaccountable even bizarre event that surfaces from time to time. There's also the spotting sequence. But if this happens too frequently then, yes, it's a flaw. That is not a bug, its a feature. Really. There was a big discussion way back that tanks could kill infantry that is very close by because there is no limit to gun depression. Gun depression can't be fixed (another long discussion) so BFC decided to up the target time for tanks for very close targets. Of course this was meant for infantry targets. Usually tanks don't get that close - unless of course in very bad weather and in cities. IMHO that has to be fixed before we get to Stalingrad or Cologne. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted December 18, 2014 Author Share Posted December 18, 2014 Sorry for going at it again but there is another aspect to this that is independent to bad LOS. TL;DR: the aiming penalty should not only add a delay to the gunner - it should also prevent turrets from turning towards the enemy Situation: I had Intel on the enemies location and the direction he was looking at. So I snug a M5 behind him to shoot him in the back: Again the targetting delay hit me and while my crew patiently waits... I still get the first shot out but now against the front turret and not the back. Not much difference for a IV but different story with the heavy cats. Also to consider: if the M5 would have shot immediately the IV might not have spotted him so fast (less eyes in the back). That may have given the M5 enough time (spotting+turning) to get out a second shot. IMHO the targeting penalty for tanks vs tanks in close range should go away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skwabie Posted December 19, 2014 Share Posted December 19, 2014 seconded! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Good stuff. Agree that improvements are desirable here. Any saves? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 Any saves? Sure - whole battle is available. But there would be nothing special to see. As I see it that is just emergent behaviour from the 'tank assault' changes (which btw I'm very happy with). Getting this close is probably quite uncommon so it has probably gone unnoticed so far. Set yourself up with a night QB with heavy rain and only tanks on both sides. The situations above will happen all the time. Getting a long range contact is an outlier unless the contact is shooting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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