Red Thunder TOE errors

[Rokko]

I haven't taken as close a look into the TOEs in Red Thunder yet as I have done for CMBN, but so far I've noted that German motorized Panzergrenadier batallions have thrice as many ATGs as they should have. The reason is that the heavy company's antitank platoon has three further antitank platoons assigned to it, instead of three squads, raising the number of ATGs to nine instead of three per batallion.

[Sequoia]

It's a good thing you found this BEFORE the patch was released.

[JasonC]

Good catch. You are correct that a regimental AT company had only 3 PAK.

There is common confusion over unit size and equipment designations when it comes to artillery unit types. The basic point that needs to be understood is that a battery is a company sized formation in normal field artillery terms. This means that a single gun, which you might think is only a squad sized item, is a platoon sized item in field artillery terms. Sometimes they may interleave gun sections of a pair of guns. But basically, a 3 to 6 gun formation in an artillery type unit is normally going to get a company designation, not a platoon designation.

This is also how you get things like a battalion sized formation of self propelled guns being designated a "brigade", and similar confusions. Worse, it is inconsistent in its application, with a "company" sometimes meaning a battery and sometimes meaning 3 batteries.

In the case of infantry formation PAK components, there can also be other bits besides the heavy PAK themselves - a FLAK battery as a 3rd of the formation e.g., or a "platoon" of half a dozen Panzerscreck teams.

The standard PAK loadout of a mid to late war German mobile division was just 3 heavy PAK in each regiment in one PAK company, plus a divisional Panzerjaeger battalion of 3 companies, which might have StuGs, Marders, towed PAK, or light FLAK in any kind of mixture. A common case was 1 company of 10 StuGs, 12 towed 75mm PAK in 3 4 gun batteries, and a light FLAK company with 9 37mm or 12 20mm light FLAK.

[Rokko]

JasonC you misread me. I was talking about AT Platoons in the heavy companies of each motorized Panzergrenadier batallion. As far as I can remember and see, there are no regimental Antitank companies for Panzergrenadier formations in 1944 (though I believe there were regimental AT companies for regular Grenadier regiments which are not in the game at all).

Edit:

So if I am correct, there are 6 AT guns for each motorized PG regiment, 3 per batallion. For SS-PG regiments the number would be 9 due to the 3 batallions per regiment.

[akd]

I haven't taken as close a look into the TOEs in Red Thunder yet as I have done for CMBN, but so far I've noted that German motorized Panzergrenadier batallions have thrice as many ATGs as they should have. The reason is that the heavy company's antitank platoon has three further antitank platoons assigned to it, instead of three squads, raising the number of ATGs to nine instead of three per batallion.

Good catch. Reported, and hopefully a fix will make it into the patch.

Good catch. You are correct that a regimental AT company had only 3 PAK.

There is common confusion over unit size and equipment designations when it comes to artillery unit types.

I think you may be mixing up a few things here. Later panzergrenadier regiments had a towed-Pak platoon with 3-guns. Towed-Pak companies in Panzerjager battalions had 9- or 12- gun companies, with subordinate platoons.

JasonC you misread me. I was talking about AT Platoons in the heavy companies of each motorized Panzergrenadier batallion. As far as I can remember and see, there are no regimental Antitank companies for Panzergrenadier formations in 1944 (though I believe there were regimental AT companies for regular Grenadier regiments which are not in the game at all).

regular grenadier regiments had an AT company with 1x Pak platoon (3 guns) and 2x Panzershreck platoons. I believe the panzershrecks are assumed to be farmed out to the grenadier battalions in game.

[JasonC]

Akd - you are right, I was thinking of the 3 heavy PAK at regimental level in a standard infantry (grenadier) regiment...