My 2c bout RT

[Pandur]

like it, all as expected, plays like CMx2 with different units, so well no surprise.

2 problems so far;

- vehicles loop´s far to loud, as allways. CMSF and modules, CMBN and modules, vehicle loops are allways too loud compared to the rest. no biggie, switch it out with the ones i have stored, all fixed.

- "reverse slope" targets, surprisingly get ignored like in the early CMSF days.

i have big problems with that in russian campain mission 1, bad weather bad visibility, and many foxholes or trench behind a 1 meter rise. that produces a lot of reverse slope targets, it seems the AI it to much preserving with the ammo and wont engage this targets at all.

yes i can manually target and they shoot but thats not how its supposed to be.

worst situation i had was when 2 infantry squad and 1 maxim all saw the same enemy unit for a full turn 250m away, and they did, low and behold, nothing. very frustrating and painfull to watch.

maybe the infantry can be made more likely to engage a reverse slope target with direct fire, also if only with reduced RoF and whatnot. but right now they just ignore it even if they took fire and casualties from that same enemy unit they now stoically ignore and endure.

[zmoney]

Oh thank god, finally! I have been impatiently waiting to hear your two cents worth. I can now stop refreshing every five minutes and get some sleep.

As far as reverse slope is concerned, you can still usually area fire that action square. I usually suppress with mg's and close with my rifle men. Seems to work good for me.

[zmoney]

Upon further reflection, I kind of associate the reverse slope situations as they are. The enemy has a prepared fighting position that is fairly well protected. Your troops know where the fire is coming from but cannot make out individual enemy soldiers firing at them. So they wait for orders to suppress and start the infantry flanking drills that they so loved in training.

Especially at 265+ meters, I don't think it is much of an issue for them not to fire back at something they know they can't accurately engage. Plus they put themselves at risk of being shot with little chance of shooting the enemy.

[Fizou]

Oh thank god, finally! I have been impatiently waiting to hear your two cents worth. I can now stop refreshing every five minutes and get some sleep.

Wow.. where did that come from?! Uncalled for.

- "reverse slope" targets, surprisingly get ignored like in the early CMSF days.

i have big problems with that in russian campain mission 1, bad weather bad visibility, and many foxholes or trench behind a 1 meter rise. that produces a lot of reverse slope targets, it seems the AI it to much preserving with the ammo and wont engage this targets at all.

yes i can manually target and they shoot but thats not how its supposed to be.

worst situation i had was when 2 infantry squad and 1 maxim all saw the same enemy unit for a full turn 250m away, and they did, low and behold, nothing. very frustrating and painfull to watch.

maybe the infantry can be made more likely to engage a reverse slope target with direct fire, also if only with reduced RoF and whatnot. but right now they just ignore it even if they took fire and casualties from that same enemy unit they now stoically ignore and endure.

I havent played RT all that much yet. To many CMFI and BN games going still. So I cant really comment on this. Might be a possible bug if something has snuck back into the code?

[zmoney]

Wow.. where did that come from?! Uncalled for

Late night at work, I guess it sounded funnier in my head. Not meant to be mean.

It's nothing like the CMSF problem was.

[Pandur]

Your troops know where the fire is coming from but cannot make out individual enemy soldiers firing at them.

here is the problem, ovcourse they can see individual soldier shooting at them, i have full ID of the units in question(not details like type, but a solid contact, iron difficulty).

but they just dont.

I don't think it is much of an issue for them not to fire back at something they know they can't accurately engage. Plus they put themselves at risk of being shot with little chance of shooting the enemy.

just because they have low chance to kill they still bring effect, supression in this case.

my units where already shot upon by several enemy units, not all at once but one at a time, they took few casualties, but no joy, "reverse slope" they just sit there and let themselfs be killed slowly.

Might be a possible bug if something has snuck back into the code?

i dont think its a bug, its just they think its not enough chance to hit, not even with a cover arc which normaly helps in such situations.

they just need to be made more likely to fire back, just because they can only see the heads and torso of the enemy doesnt mean they shouldnt shoot back.

in scenario 1 i have this problem all over the map, left right, almost all soldiers in foxholes and trench are in reverse slope, its horrible for me.

you have to manually target almost every unit(so far, iam not finished), and if the unit goes out of LOS at second 10 in the turn the manualy target order wont do anything, at second 30 they are back up and shooting, but no joy, reverse slope no reaction by my troops. no matter if fire is incomming or not, doesnt change a thing.

"Comrade Sergeante, eny spotted 200m away, i can see a guy´s head *prepares to aim*"

""NO, its reverse slope, DONT fire""

"but...but...i can hit him, i got scoped mosin!?"

""THATS AN ORDER!!!§$%&§$""

its goes somehow like that i imagine

seriously, i hope it can be tweaked or looked at. maybe it doesnt show in realtime play, but in WEGO its butt ugly behavior.

[Peregrine]

here is the problem, ovcourse they can see individual soldier shooting at them, i have full ID of the unit(not details like type, but a solid contact, iron difficulty).

but they just dont.

Just because one of your guys can spot the enemy doesn't mean they all can. It can sometimes be difficult to tell who can see and who can't unless your squad is totally unsuppressed and they are all shooting. This especially pops up in reverse slope situations.

It is possible only a few of your troops actually have LOF and so your squad looks like it isn't shooting much. And if those few shooting get suppressed then you basically won't be shooting at all.

[Pandur]

It is possible only a few of your troops actually have LOF and so your squad looks like it isn't shooting much.

possible, but not the case.

yes, its reverse slope

yes, not all in squad can see, i have gray target line, like in most revers slope situations.

no, no single man is shooting, not even a few like i would expect. its not hard to see if a unit or a man is shooting, i mean you hear it, you see it, and you can read it in bottom left corner where it shows what the guys are doing. iam 100% positive that no guy of any of my units in question where shooing at solid spot´s, all in revers slope with gray line, but all solid contacts. i still got all saves in case someone want to see it.

dont take this wrong here, but i love how this forums wants to explain to you what you see.

[zmoney]

dont take this wrong here, but i love how this forums wants to explain to you what you see.

Pandur my friend I have seen what you have seen. i am currently playing this same monster scenario and the same thing has happened to me. If your troops were closer they would respond different by firing back which is consistent with realism.

For instance have you ever seen the different forms of infantry fighting positions? these things are tiny to where the defender will only minimally be exposed. So in this scenario as the attacker your troops are full exposed, they take fire from 265 meters away, they hit the deck, they look to see where the fire is coming from and they can barely make out movement in a trench line ahead (probably the tops of helmets) but they know it was a rifle shooting so there is the id. So they will wait for their nco or officer to tell them to either suppress or flank. obviously if the enemy is fully exposed someone can take a shot otherwise there is no need to waste ammo.

Now if the enemy was closer shooting at you from fighting positions then yea it would make sense to shoot back because you have a better chance of hitting them plus you have nothing to lose because you're so close that they can kill you even if you are on the ground, whereas at a distance you are safer because you have more cover etc at least in this scenario.

[Lethaface]

After several hard weeks of fighting since release of CMRT I managed to win that scenario about 2 weeks ago. Even though I reloaded a couple of times -I used this mission to become familiar with Soviet infantry and to train my assaults on fortified positions- in the end I still suffered 45 KIA, 64 WIA and 2 KO'ed SU-76's. Without reloading that could have easily been +100 casualties and another 4/5 SU-76's.

Anyway, I had frequent targeting problems because of the reverse slope defenses. However I don't recall my men not firing when able to more than normal. Actually I thought it's good SMG's are not firing at long distances.

That being said, I used a lot of suppression fires against trenches with spotting contacts only. When my advancing engineers and trailing rifle infantry came under fire / spotted enemy trenches I usually tried to hide / seek cover and put the trenches under fire from as far away as possible with SU-76's and or HMG's. They have better chances against MG-42's and are easier to move out when under artillery fire

So, I didn't face the same problems you faced but that might be because of the approach I chose for this mission.

FWIW, my lessons regarding attacking strengthened infantry strongpoints in defensive terrain (or how to approach battles like the first mission in the soviet campaign):

Engineers are pointman on hunt and hide orders. Trailing not far behind are larger groups of infantry, also on hide orders because I don't want them to duel with MG's over mid/long range. Mixed in are snipers that do take potshots when possible.

When strongpoints are identified they are put under suppression from every HMG, assault gun and mortar that can target the strongpoint (maneuver if necessary and possible). When the enemy is suppressed and dangerous heavy weapons or bunkers are destroyed infantry move in. I found out that the 'move' command works quite well for assaults with the larger and SMG heavy soviet Rifle squads (marching fire). They close in until 1 or 2 action square's away from the trench and if possible a flame thrower then comes up to burn up the trench.

[Pandur]

Pandur my friend I have seen what you have seen. i am currently playing this same monster scenario and the same thing has happened to me. If your troops were closer they would respond different by firing back which is consistent with realism.

For instance have you ever seen the different forms of infantry fighting positions? these things are tiny to where the defender will only minimally be exposed. So in this scenario as the attacker your troops are full exposed, they take fire from 265 meters away, they hit the deck, they look to see where the fire is coming from and they can barely make out movement in a trench line ahead (probably the tops of helmets) but they know it was a rifle shooting so there is the id. So they will wait for their nco or officer to tell them to either suppress or flank. obviously if the enemy is fully exposed someone can take a shot otherwise there is no need to waste ammo.

Now if the enemy was closer shooting at you from fighting positions then yea it would make sense to shoot back because you have a better chance of hitting them plus you have nothing to lose because you're so close that they can kill you even if you are on the ground, whereas at a distance you are safer because you have more cover etc at least in this scenario.

mate, i totaly get where you comming from, but my "conceptual" problem with that is wth does the game give me a full ID? i dont get a full ID cause my man spot nothing?

if the game doesnt show me the ID´ed enemy soldiers and does not give me a full spott in this situation, iam happy, but i get full ID yet my guys ignore it.

and yes, its largely this scenario, i did not have this problem in many smaler scenarios i played in between to relax a little.

@Lethaface

well, i play russians now so no reload unless a major f**k up. i got 3 su-76 immobilized in fords, 3 just suddenly exploded to at least 2 unknowen AT guns, 1 more immobilized in a muddy patch on right flank, with visual on a bunker but out of traverse for the gun

so i got like 2 or 3 su-76 left.

i think i took casualties in an order of 3:1, 3 of my guys for 1 german, it feels bad while playing but in the end i think it should be good.

yes after i noticed the revers slope problem, i had to retreat at least 2 full platoon out of enemy sight, that put them under fire again by the dreaded german revers slope exploiters. but thanks to suppression no guy fell.

i am about to bring up my maxims now into this same positions, to just spam this friggin exploiters with 7.62x54R. If i cant kill em while i see em, area fire with kill em while invisible, and suppress on top of that

lets see how that turn out. bad thing is iam stuck anyways on right flank, since all my SU-76 went up in flames there and one got immobilized, good thing is i found a hole, not sure if its there intentionally, and i am shoving 2 platoons fast through that hole. they approach the fight for the 2nd zone you need to touch now, like 50 minutes left on the clock, i think its still winnable so i am still in.

with that said, i am glad when this scenario is done with, not bause it bad or anything but the real frustration for me is when i hit the reverse slope quirk time and time again. and most of the time i watch it in the replay i watch my guys take casualties, while stationary, they have full ID but dont even try to shoot back in order to suppress and stop the fireing onto them. the power for this is in their hands, called small arms, but well.